Classic X-Men Allies & Alt Looks: Informal Character Poll #8

[elhonez]

Yeah Changeling does have somewhat of a dubious, retconned, "excuse to bring the Professor back" claim to X-fame. But that helmet! Hoo boy. I feel like he found a giant purple gourd, and it could have gone two ways. And instead of making a wind instrument, he made a helmet and Changeling was born. 

Q: If you hold his helmet up to your ear, can you hear the ocean?

[bigvis497]

X-Men membership was very easy to keep track of until around Utopia/Secret Invasion. The last official membership list came out in 2010;  as you can imagine, a lot has changed since then. Unfortunately, the softcover TPB editions of the OHOTMU were cancelled due to low sales five volumes in. The softcovers reprinted the contents from the hardcover volumes, but a few pages of "where are they now" style updates were placed at the end. The letter "X" would have been in Volume 13 and we would have used that to officially update and clarify the X-Men roster. Theoretically, a volume 13 of the softcover trade updates would have been released around 2013.

It's tricky because X-Men membership isn't as "official" as something like Avengers. It isn't an officially sanctioned group, it doesn't have charters, bylaws, etc. If whoever is leading the X-Men says you're an X-Man, then you're officially an X-Man. So characters like Ariel (Coconut Grove), Aurora, the Secret Invasion-era New Mutants, many of the Utopia residents, are officially considered by Marvel to be X-Men. There were some from around that time that we needed official clarification on, but unfortunately, we never made it to that stage.

Now that we live in a post-Marvel/Disney/Fox world, hopefully we can get an official stance soon!

[bigvis497]

57 minutes ago, Gillbob316 said:

(I mean we don't call Dark Beast or Skrullverine real X-Men, and that was basically what they did too)

Officially, they're in the same category as the Phoenix Force. X-Men imposters, per se.

[Gillbob316]

Actually being that he's a metamorph, he's technically naked, and the helmet is technically a part of his body. Technically. I think.

They technically produce and reabsorb the clothing and simple objects they're wearing from the matter of their own bodies. I assume that includes his helmet.

I recall a panel from Mystique's solo series where she produces a test tube vial from behind her back to collect a sample of something (or something along that line), and her companion asks her where she got a test tube, and she explains she basically made it from herself. She essentially morphed a test tube into her belt, and then removed it. Which her companion then finds gross.

It's roughly equivalent to a normal person removing a test-tube sized amount of flesh from their body... survivable. Eventually the flesh heals over/regenerates. But for them (the metamorphs) it's painless an instantaneous. And the matter can typically be reabsorbed.

Pretty sure they can only do simple solid objects, not machines or complex parts, or gasses or ammunition, etc. I'd say a super ugly helmet qualifies. So it's likely he CHOSE to look that stupid. He didn't just FIND an ugly helmet.

[Gillbob316]

22 minutes ago, bigvis497 said:

Officially, they're in the same category as the Phoenix Force. X-Men imposters, per se.

Yeah, I understand where they are officially, what I don't like is the distinction between them and Lady Mastermind is as simple as "They were pretending to be someone else" wheras she "Was herself, just pretending to be a good guy" and for some reason that makes her more a genuine X-Man than them, and not simply an infiltrator (like them).

I mean Skrullverine didn't even know he was a skrull, he was for all intents and purposes a hero, who believed he was Wolverine. Wheras Lady Mastermind was never a hero, and was working against the team in secret... but because HER identity was real, she's an official X-Man, and since Skrullverine's identity was false, even though he didn't know it... he's an "imposter" it's... dumb semantics.

Sabretooth furthermore, was on the team as a prisoner, against his will, which is even dumber. Rogue took him prisoner, so that makes him an X-Man for some reason? (Because the writer said so) That's just stupid.

I've never liked calling any of the three of them X-Men based on that tenure. None of them were truly "on the team" so to speak... and I doubt if you asked a reputable X-Man (pretend they're not fictional) "Hey, do you think of these guys as your teammates?" They'd say, "Yes!" ... more along the line of, "No, that's that bitch that pretended to be one of us and betrayed us." I can't imagine there are fond pictures of them hanging in the mansion anywhere.

I get that they were X-Men during that run, but I feel like once it came to light they were simply villains infiltrating, they should have been stricken from the longterm roster, and written off as infiltrators. (Aside from Sabretooth, who never should have been on it in the first place...)

The First Xorn also confuses the hell out of me, but that's mostly just due to bad writing. But he's technically also an infiltrator. In theory. For some reason calling him an X-Man bothers me less than those three though. Maybe because there was some suggestion he wasn't originally evil, and just kinda went crazy (due to Sublime or using Kick or something? I don't friggin' remember)... like I said... with Xorn it's more an issue of bad writing & retcons, so a good explanation was never actually given.

I DUNNO MAN...

I think we both understand the notion of "Official clarification from marvel" vs. "Non-official clarification from Marvel" ... I'm just ranting that I don't always agree with Marvel's clarifications on the matter, haha. I'm not disputing that what they say is official is what they consider official... I'm just saying even some of what they call official rubs me the wrong way (which ultimately means nothing).

I don't like calling those three villains X-Men, and I damn sure don't like calling half the residents of Utopia X-Men. The family tree needs pruning. God willing, now that the fox deal is happening, they will release an updated official roster down the road and trim it down considerably.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Gillbob316

[Gillbob316]

And I do think they have adjusted these things based on time and distance from a short-term story haven't they?

I seem to recall some official rosters originally called Paulie, Frenzy, Wraith and Sunpyre "official" X-Men (close to the time of their short tenure) but then later official rosters downgraded them to "temporary" X-Men (of which there are zillions). That's the area I see most Utopia residents in. Temporary. The vast majority of them weren't ever on a solid "team" or any one writer's chosen roster.

Lady Mastermind, Mystique and Sabretooth aside (because that's a whole different argument), I think a lot of those Utopia memberships can and should be downgraded to "temporary" status if and when they ever do an official roster list again.

[hellpop]

None of them, because the X-Men suck.

Okay, okay, they don't completely suck, it's more that I've never been a big fan, and when they got really complicated in the early '90s is when I really lost interest in them. But I know that most of you that were younger than me came of age during that time, so I get it, these are your characters. I just like to be contrary sometimes.

Anyway, I voted for Lilandra and Hepzibah, though I've had my mind on making Corsair and Hepzibah customs for some time (I have plenty of extra skunk tails if anyone needs them). I agree with BHM though that the Beast is probably one of the most needed updates, since he's one of those characters with multiple figures that has never been gotten quite right. The Secret Invasion one is a pretty good version of him when he first went furry, but he's too small, and every other one is a disaster in one way or another.

If we ever get another X-Men themed wave (big if, right?) I'd like to see an X-Men vs Shi'ar/Imperial Guard theme. You can even put Wolverine in the Fang costume to knock out an extra IG spot!

[bigvis497]

The Muir Island team, the Genoshan team, the Street Team from Morrison's run, and others I'm probably forgetting, were never officially considered X-Men. They were ad-hoc groups assembled in the absence of an official X-Men team and have always been listed as such. Any lists that considered them official X-Men are incorrect. If the present leader of the X-Men gave them official status, it would be different. The Ariel panel you mentioned before is a perfect example: Cyclops (the leader) stated "she died an X-Man." There are Utopia residents who were never considered X-Men like Avalanche, some of the Morlocks, and others I'm forgetting.

I totally get the imposter thing, but I guess it falls down to the lax in-universe rules for X-Men membership. The X-Men can't revoke a member, the Avengers could (has that ever happened? I wanna say The Hulk had his founding member status revoked at one point?). It really does boil down to minutia, but hey, that's what makes this stuff fun! I appreciate looking under the microscope with passionate X-Fans

On the topic of official, the only "official" rosters are in publications approved by Marvel editorial. Wiki entries, Sporcle quizes and DK books don't count. DK books are a BIG point of contention; many people reference them because they carry the Marvel logo (not a knock on DK, I actually really like and respect their work), but they do not go through editorial, just licensing. There's a few examples in one of their books where unofficial fanfic real names are used. There was a very long, geeky thread about this kind of stuff at the old Who Watches the Watchers forum, but it no longer exists since Comixfan went down. If I can find an archived version, I'll post a link. The OHOTMU staff does go to straight to editorial in the event that clarification is needed. When possible, the original writer is contacted.

[Polarboy]

If I were you Gillbob I wouldn't be tying myself in knots of membership status, since about 2002 I think your allowed to conciser any super powered marvel character both a hero and villain definitely an avenger probably an x-man and above all else unaware of what a fantastic four is.

[thereasonsy]

1 hour ago, Polarboy said:

If I were you Gillbob I wouldn't be tying myself in knots of membership status, since about 2002 I think your allowed to conciser any super powered marvel character both a hero and villain definitely an avenger probably an x-man and above all else unaware of what a fantastic four is.

Accurate! 

[elhonez]

Wow! We got to 50 votes quite fast with this poll. And the winners showed a trend toward the novelty of un-made characters over new looks for previously made characters.

Classic Mimic was our victor, edging out Lilandra by 2 votes. The oft-demanded green jumpsuit Rogue was a distant third behind these two favorites.

For the Starjammers, Corsair was the clear favorite, with Hepzibah coming in second. And poor Sikorsky didn't get a single vote, but let's be real: he's tiny and should be a solid piece pack-in with a box set or two-pack, complete with a small flight stand.

I can't see doing one without doing all of them. The core team could be handled as a box set (with Sikorsky pack-in), and there could be a supplemental 2-pack with Binary and a Starjammers variant of Lilandra or Professor X. A fan can dream...