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TRU Series 26

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8 hours ago, arnim zola said:

So no one forgets about wife beater Pym, but as a scientist it was important that he use his Pym particles to get drunk and beat his wife. So yeah he is the best boy. BOOM REJECTED!

Forgetting all the out-of-universe stuff, even in-universe, what Hank did wasn't that bad. Certainly not enough to be the defining point of his character decades later. He was in a fucked up mental state and slapped Jan. He's atoned, he's tried, but everybody holds that against him. Meanwhile, Parker literally sent a pregnant MJ flying across the room, then run away, yet nobody mentions that. Cap spent his last days alive trying to kill Tony for trying to save what he could. Tony himself wiped everybody's minds with a satellite. Everyone's done shady shit. Yet it's only Hank that gets beat up constantly. 616 Pym isn't 1610 Pym, who was a legitimate cunt.

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I'm fairly certain most other Male Marvel Heroes (If not all of them) have hit women at least once in their careers, most of the time in a Superheroic context, so we completely ignore it, but even some in entirely Non-Superheroic contexts. I have no specific examples to cite, but I’m 99% certain it’s happened in the last 60 years or so, at least a few times.

The reason it sticks out with Hank as a defining character trait is because they MADE it stick out as a defining character trait. People remember it BECAUSE it was something he regretted and BECAUSE it was something he tried to atone for and BECAUSE it was something they continued to address after it happened.

It wasn’t just an instance of “Spider-Man goes nutty, socks MJ and the story moves on without acknowledging it further” … the story deliberately acknowledged it further.

And so it became a relatable instance of domestic abuse for a lot of readers, and thus, marred him for a lot of readers forever. Much like Tony Stark being a drunk… Fun Fact: I don’t think I’ve ever actually read a comic where Tony picked up a drink or had a drunk moment. I know they exist, but it’s certainly not an everyday part of his character most of the time. Yet it became one of those defining things that people associated with him forever. Because it was a real life, relatable issue that Marvel chose his character to draw a spotlight onto. Much like Pym and Domestic Abuse.

Even though plenty of heroes have done just as bad, if not worse, in their time, it’s the fact that Marvel sets them up to be “The example” that… makes them continue to endure in people’s minds as “The example”

Edited by Gillbob316

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9 hours ago, Kostisfire said:

Forgetting all the out-of-universe stuff, even in-universe, what Hank did wasn't that bad. Certainly not enough to be the defining point of his character decades later. He was in a fucked up mental state and slapped Jan. He's atoned, he's tried, but everybody holds that against him. Meanwhile, Parker literally sent a pregnant MJ flying across the room, then run away, yet nobody mentions that. Cap spent his last days alive trying to kill Tony for trying to save what he could. Tony himself wiped everybody's minds with a satellite. Everyone's done shady shit. Yet it's only Hank that gets beat up constantly. 616 Pym isn't 1610 Pym, who was a legitimate cunt.

Not to sound like Steve Rogers, but Language!.

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5 hours ago, AFMcGill said:

I don't think a Minimate forum is really going to be the place where the situation with Hank Pym is going to be resolved.

Eh, doesn't hurt to try.

3 hours ago, Gillbob316 said:

I'm fairly certain most other Male Marvel Heroes (If not all of them) have hit women at least once in their careers, most of the time in a Superheroic context, so we completely ignore it, but even some in entirely Non-Superheroic contexts. I have no specific examples to cite, but I’m 99% certain it’s happened in the last 60 years or so, at least a few times.

The reason it sticks out with Hank as a defining character trait is because they MADE it stick out as a defining character trait. People remember it BECAUSE it was something he regretted and BECAUSE it was something he tried to atone for and BECAUSE it was something they continued to address after it happened.

It wasn’t just an instance of “Spider-Man goes nutty, socks MJ and the story moves on without acknowledging it further” … the story deliberately acknowledged it further.

And so it became a relatable instance of domestic abuse for a lot of readers, and thus, marred him for a lot of readers forever. Much like Tony Stark being a drunk… Fun Fact: I don’t think I’ve ever actually read a comic where Tony picked up a drink or had a drunk moment. I know they exist, but it’s certainly not an everyday part of his character most of the time. Yet it became one of those defining things that people associated with him forever. Because it was a real life, relatable issue that Marvel chose his character to draw a spotlight onto. Much like Pym and Domestic Abuse.

Even though plenty of heroes have done just as bad, if not worse, in their time, it’s the fact that Marvel sets them up to be “The example” that… makes them continue to endure in people’s minds as “The example”

Tony's drinking shows up at least once in every run. Either he's close to relapsing, or he goes to a meeting, stuff like that. Usually after the end of some big story arc.

1 hour ago, Dave said:

Not to sound like Steve Rogers, but Language!.

Stevil is in no place to make demands.

hydra-captain-america-secret-empire.jpg

Spoiler

He was, unironically, right.

 

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The fact that I've personally never seen Tony's drinking come up much in comics probably stems from the fact I don't really read Tony Specific comics. I read the big crossovers, and occasionally dabble in Avengers ensemble books, but I imagine his drinking probably comes up more in his own solo books, which deal with him personally (and his own personal issues).

As I said, I know those comics exist, but I don't think I've personally ever encountered one in my reading, and it's not something that often seems to be a huge facet in those big crossover books featuring him which I do read. (Nor was it even a big enough facet to make the leap to the big screen in a meaningful way, beyond that one drunk party scene in Iron Man 2)

Edited by Gillbob316

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Yeah, Robert Downey Jr. got all sorts of love when they cast him as Tony Stark partly due to his own battles with substance abuse. Instead of using that experience to portray his alcoholism they gave him PTSD in Iron Man 3. (Thanks, Disney!)

 

Ant-Man and the Wasp will probably feature a spat between the title characters culminating with Wasp hitting Ant-Man over the head with a frying pan. (Because that kind of domestic violence has always been acceptable.)

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55 minutes ago, Gillbob316 said:

The fact that I've personally never seen Tony's drinking come up much in comics probably stems from the fact I don't really read Tony Specific comics. I read the big crossovers, and occasionally dabble in Avengers ensemble books, but I imagine his drinking probably comes up more in his own solo books, which deal with him personally (and his own personal issues).

Well, yeah. You don't read Justice League and expect a thorough characterization of Hal Jordan.

55 minutes ago, Gillbob316 said:

As I said, I know those comics exist, but I don't think I've personally ever encountered one in my reading, and it's not something that often seems to be a huge facet in those big crossover books featuring him which I do read. (Nor was it even a big enough facet to make the leap to the big screen in a meaningful way, beyond that one drunk party scene in Iron Man 2)

It didn't make the jump to the MCU because the MCU is marketed to general audiences and kids. Disney would never have Tony become a homeless alcoholic who sleeps with crackwhores to fuel his sex addiction. Or tackle his insecurity issues. He's "le jokey tech man" at this point.

42 minutes ago, MisterPL said:

Yeah, Robert Downey Jr. got all sorts of love when they cast him as Tony Stark partly due to his own battles with substance abuse. Instead of using that experience to portray his alcoholism they gave him PTSD in Iron Man 3. (Thanks, Disney!)

God, that was such a letdown. MCU Stark went from great, to kinda annoying to a cartoon. He still has his moments here and there, but he doesn'thave the complexity of the books.

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My two cents on 616 Hank Pym? It’s like the character can never heal... writers just keep... picking... at... the... SCAB!

I was pleasantly surprised by what may happen soon with him and hopefully THEY’LL LEAVE ‘IM ALONE!

*pant wheeze*

I gotta go lie down now.

Edited by Mystery Man

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So I don't normally read Spidey books, but my best friend is a huge Spidey fan, so I still absorb a lot of secondhand information from him, and I'm usually sort-of up on what's happening with Spidey through that absorption. That said, I'm no expert. That said I'm trying to learn more about the Black Iron Spider Armor, and I'm so freaking confused... because its history is closely tied to Miles... who... frankly creates confusion...

Is this armor a 616 thing, or an Ultimate thing?

The Marvel wiki says the Black Armor was donned villainously by Aaron Davis as a means of getting to Miles. Aaron Davis, I gather, is Miles' uncle, and the Ultimate Universe equivalent of The Prowler (who in 616, is Hobie Brown, who for all intents and purposes, is unrelated to this discussion)... every bit of info I can find on Aaron seems to indicate he's an Ultimate Universe created villain, and his point of origin is in the Ultimate Universe... and The Prowler is still Hobie in the main canon (and only ever was)

Except for the fact that the Black Iron Spider stuff all seems to happen in the 616 canon? Aaron seems to acquire the armor from 616 characters, and it seems to allegedly be the same 616 Iron Spider Armor Peter once wore, modified by Ceres. Then as this evil black incarnation of Iron Spider, Aaron reformed the Sinister Six... but it seems the other 5 members of Aaron's Sinister 6 are the 616 versions of those characters, which makes me assume this also happened in the main canon... which makes me ASSUME this ALL must have happened in the main canon, and Aaron must be in the 616 reality now too (though his marvel wiki page doesn't make that at all clear, and tells his history as one narrative, with no mention at all of Secret Wars supplanting him in a new reality).

The various wiki's I'm reading don't make it clear when all these things happened, and in which reality. I just assume... based on context clues... that the story of Miles and Aaron started in the ultimate universe, and at some point made the leap to the main universe... and... the wiki's gloss over that fact because it's confusing.

From Miles' wiki, I gather that after Secret Wars, Miles and his friends and family were merged into the 616 canon as though they had been there all along. I assume that must also include Aaron (even though he doesn't seem to be a friend, or a welcome part of Miles' life, so I don't know why he should have been supplanted with him)

As mentioned, Aaron's wiki doesn't make it at all clear that he started in the Ultimate Universe but is now seemingly in the main universe (if indeed that's the case), and just tells his history as one story. Which I think is what's leading to my confusion. It makes me totally unclear on which reality his history takes place at any given point.

BUT I THINK... IF I'M PUTTING THE PIECES TOGETHER CORRECTLY... after Miles was supplanted into 616... Aaron (and various other secondary characters relevant only to Miles) came with... and their backstory is now treated as though it all took place in 616 canon (even though it started in the Ultimate canon)... and the Black Iron Spider Armor... is still the same 616 Iron Spider Armor... which was modified by Ceres and sold to Aaron AFTER he joined the main canon.

And Aaron now operates in 616 as the evil Iron Spider.
Conveniently allowing Hobie to continue to be The 616 Prowler unimpeded.

Do I have all that right? Because it took a lot of doing.

PS. Nevermind all that crap about Tony making more Iron Spider Armors and forming the Scarlet Spiders, because that makes things even more confusing.
PS2. So which characters are AWARE they're in a new Reality? Does Miles know? (His wiki makes it sound like he knows). Do his family and friends know? Does Aaron know? Or do they all think they've been in 616 all along?

Edited by Gillbob316

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I tend to lose track of the universe-shaking reboots Marvel does each summer, but wasn't the Ultimate universe merged into 616?

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9 hours ago, Cappy said:

I tend to lose track of the universe-shaking reboots Marvel does each summer, but wasn't the Ultimate universe merged into 616?

No, just the one character was to indulge his writer.

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3 hours ago, AFMcGill said:

No, just the one character was to indulge his writer.

I was sure that it stayed together. It was the main event during Secret Wars. I doubt they'd go back on it so quickly.

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1 hour ago, hellpop said:

Isn't bad guy Reed Richards in the Marvel Universe now also?

I believe so, he was in infamous Ironman 

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Several 1610 characters have popped up in the “616”, including some X-Men. As for Maker, he most definitely is in the Main U, but the “Maker” in Infamous Iron Man wasn’t exactly the Maker...

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Ultimate still-a-mutant Quicksilver is, too.

I thought every Ultimate character who survived Ultimatum and Secret Wars was in the 616 now, but I could be wrong.

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If TRU closes all its stores, yes, probably. I would not think it would be affected by them closing some of the stores, other than it would mean more mates for the stores staying open.

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This would happen. The Spot gets announced as a TRU Exclusive, and they start shutting down stores.

 

Where will I get my hokey Spider-Man villains now?

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