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wave 74


Dave

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[looks around]

[cough]

I uh... not big fan of marvel comics at the moment. Love the movies. Man Thing is a fun read. But... yeah...

im just here waiting on DC to formally bring back one of my top 5 super-teams, The Justice Society of America. They'll get there. Someday. 

Wave 74 tho... dats a lotta minimates, yo. 

[quietly goes back to reading Silver-Age crises on multiple earths]

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i haven't read America's book... but didn't she meet Prodigy after he'd already lost his powers, in Young Avengers? why is she questioning whether he, like, lost his powers? and when did she go from being a tough chick to a valley girl?

Edited by CortherX
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5 minutes ago, CortherX said:

i have read America's book... but didn't she meet Prodigy after he'd already lost his powers, in Young Avengers? why is she questioning whether he, like, lost his powers? and when did she go from being a tough chick to a valley girl?

>Expecting continuity

>In a current Marvel book

 Thanos alone Post-2016 has had such a fricked-up continuity that not even Ewing could untangle it. And who's to blame? Come on, you know this one.... 

 And yeah, Prodigy in YA didn't have any powers. Though the panel's meant to be read as "but you have no powers, what are you doing in this Uni" which is still weird considering not everyone in that Uni had any powers, so... 

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4 hours ago, CortherX said:

i have read America's book... but didn't she meet Prodigy after he'd already lost his powers, in Young Avengers? why is she questioning whether he, like, lost his powers? and when did she go from being a tough chick to a valley girl?

Yeah Prodigy was powered for about 20 issues all of which took place with him at the school. Dat's Bendis though.

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  • 4 weeks later...

How is America's questionable dialogue in the America comic Bendis' doing? Isn't it written by Gabby Rivera? Is he the editor? Is it possible he is being hands-off with the dialogue of an established writer recruited specifically to speak more directly to a target audience? And that the target audience has different interests and expectations than someone who has been reading Marvel Comics for X years?

Furthermore, how does Bendis' supposed mishandling of Doom and apparent revision of Iron Man's history make Riri a bad or at least undesirable character? I have not read the whole Iron Doom story, but I want to, and it doesn't seem to affect Riri any. At some point, you need to put a character aside for a little while in order to revisit him fresh. Who knows how a new character like Riri (again, possibly written for a different target audience) might ultimately play a key role in a great Tony Stark story.

I read the first Riri Invincible issue, and I enjoyed it. I have no issues with a new armored character, endorsed by Tony or otherwise, although I need to learn more about the pink-haired Iron Patriot girl in USAvengers.

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1 hour ago, DSTZach said:

How is America's questionable dialogue in the America comic Bendis' doing? Isn't it written by Gabby Rivera? Is he the editor? Is it possible he is being hands-off with the dialogue of an established writer recruited specifically to speak more directly to a target audience? And that the target audience has different interests and expectations than someone who has been reading Marvel Comics for X years?

 I didn't cast blame on Bendis for America. I just used it as an example of the current state of affairs of the Marvel books. Which, I, personally, find boring, pretentious and hamfisted. Maybe a 2% likes it. Great, wee, yipity-doo. Nobody's saying that Marvel shouldn't publish it. But it is a bad book, according to me at least. I don't care for it. It wouldn't bother me if I could also read something I enjoy, but Marvel's titles are all the same. Bubbly teens ala America, political books with the subtlety of a hammer going through glass, and some average capes. 

 I'm really not gonna analyze all the books and point out the flaws (or before someone screams "yer opinion isn't what the GA thinks!11!", at least what I perceive as flaws), but the gist of it is, Marvel has little to no classic writers left, ther new crop is average at best, the books are filled with idiotic stunts, the stories are not unique and generally, the whole line feels like a knock-off a small-time company would launch.

 Compare that with DC, which has all the new characters, plus the old ones. They're giving people the choice to choose what they want to read. And that's how it should be done. Not to mention that when something is a mini or a maxi, they say it. Marvel advertises everything as an ongoing, charges 5 dollars for the first issue, and then cancels the book before the 3rd issue has gone to print. It's a strategy that spits in the face of the consumer. And I'm not going to be supporting it any longer.

 If they want to create a new fanbase where they worship Moon Girl as "da smartest", where Bendis can do whatever he wants and generally the past is dismissed, they're free to do so. Their IPs, their writers, their artists, etc, etc. But I won't applaud it, and I won't buy it, simple as that. There are tons of good books out there waiting to be read, so I won't be wasting my pretty cash on Marvel's stunts.

1 hour ago, DSTZach said:

Furthermore, how does Bendis' supposed mishandling of Doom and apparent revision of Iron Man's history make Riri a bad or at least undesirable character? I have not read the whole Iron Doom story, but I want to, and it doesn't seem to affect Riri any. At some point, you need to put a character aside for a little while in order to revisit him fresh. Who knows how a new character like Riri (again, possibly written for a different target audience) might ultimately play a key role in a great Tony Stark story.

  Maybe my comment wasn't structured properly, but I just gave a rundown of the Bendis IM era. My point was that what started as a single book got broken into 4 different titles, with a story that would normally be told in the pages of Invincible branching off to other books all just to make some cash off the shiny #1s. It makes no sense for the hyper-paranoid Tony to hand over his armor to a young kid. It makes little sense, from a story perspective, to retire the main character just to let your OC take the spotlight. It's not a good strategy to end Invincible with a cliffhanger and never follow up on it. It's lazy, and screams that Bendis wanted to get through Tony as fast as he could to create Miles 2.0: Iron Edition. It's an insult to storytelling, and I won't applaud it.

1 hour ago, DSTZach said:

I read the first Riri Invincible issue, and I enjoyed it. I have no issues with a new armored character, endorsed by Tony or otherwise, although I need to learn more about the pink-haired Iron Patriot girl in USAvengers.

 The Iron Patriot over at New/US Avengers is Toni Ho, Yinsen's daughter. She's alright. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Either way, it's all just an opinion. I was only giving a quick rundown of the Bendis-IM era. You're free to read the books themselves and decide whether you like them or not. It's a free world (and internet). I, and others, don't like Riri, mainly for the reasons stated. I also don't like Moon Girl. Or Synergy-Quake. Or America Chavez. Or Modern Kate Bishop. Generally, I dislike everything Marvel, with some exceptions, past 2013. Lazy stories, cash-grab relaunches, awful events and stupid decisions are what I'd use to describe post-MCU Marvel. Some like it, some don't. I don't, and that won't change.

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First of all, I don't think you can blame Bendis for writing books people bought and then wonder why his successful, popular storytelling style is being emulated. Nobody writes like Stan Lee anymore. And Stan Lee made plenty of mistakes.

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/9/92/Marvel_No-Prize_Book_Vol_1_1.jpg

And when you say, maybe 2% like something, what are you taking about? 2% of people who have been reading Iron Man for X years? Or 2% of potential Marvel Comics readers in the English speaking world? That's a huge number. If all Marvel Comics are written alike, and appeal to exactly the same audience, the same audience that has been reading all along, then there will be no growth, no expanding pool of readers. With the entire world watching the movies, reaching a smaller , niche audience that is different from your existing audience is still a net gain. So I don't blame anyone for only reading select Marvel titles. I could never afford to buy them all, but even if I could, I probably wouldn't. I'm actually reading House of M for the very first time!

I was not feeling the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl artist, but then I read it and it's the funniest book around. But I love Marvel humor titles: What The..., Damage Control, etc. Reading that America Cjavez "recently gained the power to punch her enemies into a cloud of stars" makes me want to check it out and ignore minor continuity mistakes 

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12 hours ago, DSTZach said:

First of all, I don't think you can blame Bendis for writing books people bought and then wonder why his successful, popular storytelling style is being emulated. Nobody writes like Stan Lee anymore. And Stan Lee made plenty of mistakes.

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/9/92/Marvel_No-Prize_Book_Vol_1_1.jpg

And when you say, maybe 2% like something, what are you taking about? 2% of people who have been reading Iron Man for X years? Or 2% of potential Marvel Comics readers in the English speaking world? That's a huge number. If all Marvel Comics are written alike, and appeal to exactly the same audience, the same audience that has been reading all along, then there will be no growth, no expanding pool of readers. With the entire world watching the movies, reaching a smaller , niche audience that is different from your existing audience is still a net gain. So I don't blame anyone for only reading select Marvel titles. I could never afford to buy them all, but even if I could, I probably wouldn't. I'm actually reading House of M for the very first time!

I was not feeling the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl artist, but then I read it and it's the funniest book around. But I love Marvel humor titles: What The..., Damage Control, etc. Reading that America Cjavez "recently gained the power to punch her enemies into a cloud of stars" makes me want to check it out and ignore minor continuity mistakes 

 Nobody emulates Bendis' style, the problem is Bendis himself. He's found a niche and is repeating it. He writes every character the same way. He drags out plots. He leveas stories unfinished. He rushes through titles to get through to what he wants. The man wrote the X-Men for three years and nothing happened. He built up a "Revolution" that never took place. He dragged out the "Will of Charles Xavier" for "4" issues, which got delayed leading to about half a year of this storyline, and the result was... the guy introduced at the start of the book... stopped existing. Yeah, that was the big pay-off of 30+ issues. That and the "Revolution" being... a red herring! Woo! Either way, he's stuck in the past days of his glory and is not trying to move forward. That's the gist of it.

 I'm not saying he's a bad writer, just one that refuses to progress and is just trying to relive his past. He's not even bad, just... mediocre. House of M, his Daredevil, even Ultimate Spider-Man, they were books written by him, but they were not "Bendis"!Books. They had his "voice", but they still followed a proper structure. Story-Arcs weren't drawn out, his Bendis!Speak was kept in check, plot points weren't dropped, they were in general good books. But these days have simply passed. He needs to take a break and stop writting 4 books at once.

 I was talking about the America book on the 2% thing (which is obviously just a figure of speech). The sales are pretty absymal. So only a tiny minority is reading this book. Or not. Maybe the Diamond numbers are only a fragment and there's a kid over at Russia who enjoys the hell out of this book. I don't really care though. I just don't like it. I used it as an example of how the current crop of titles is, according to my POV at least, trash. There's nothing more to it than this. Some like them, some don't. I fall on the latter category. 

 And Marvel is less diverse than ever, as far as writting style goes. That's the point. We have either bubbly teen books or hamfisted political allegories. Marvel's "Diversity" is nothing more than a catchy tune. There's no real diversity in Marvel. Everyone has the same voice, the same flaws, the same problems. It's like having a choice between a red stick figure, a blue stick figure and a green stick figure. At least in my opinion.

 

Edited by Kostisfire
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10 hours ago, Kostisfire said:

 Nobody emulates Bendis' style, the problem is Bendis himself. He's found a niche and is repeating it. He writes every character the same way. He drags out plots. He leveas stories unfinished. He rushes through titles to get through to what he wants. The man wrote the X-Men for three years and nothing happened. He built up a "Revolution" that never took place. He dragged out the "Will of Charles Xavier" for "4" issues, which got delayed leading to about half a year of this storyline, and the result was... the guy introduced at the start of the book... stopped existing. Yeah, that was the big pay-off of 30+ issues. That and the "Revolution" being... a red herring! Woo! Either way, he's stuck in the past days of his glory and is not trying to move forward. That's the gist of it.

 I'm not saying he's a bad writer, just one that refuses to progress and is just trying to relive his past. He's not even bad, just... mediocre. House of M, his Daredevil, even Ultimate Spider-Man, they were books written by him, but they were not "Bendis"!Books. They had his "voice", but they still followed a proper structure. Story-Arcs weren't drawn out, his Bendis!Speak was kept in check, plot points weren't dropped, they were in general good books. But these days have simply passed. He needs to take a break and stop writting 4 books at once.

Can't you just not read those four books? Seems like that's a small percentage of Marvel's output and easy to avoid. For someone who dislikes Bendis, you seem to follow his books religiously. 

Quote

 I was talking about the America book on the 2% thing (which is obviously just a figure of speech). The sales are pretty absymal. So only a tiny minority is reading this book. Or not. Maybe the Diamond numbers are only a fragment and there's a kid over at Russia who enjoys the hell out of this book. I don't really care though. I just don't like it. I used it as an example of how the current crop of titles is, according to my POV at least, trash. There's nothing more to it than this. Some like them, some don't. I fall on the latter category. 

Wait, all of Marvel's titles are trash?

Quote

 And Marvel is less diverse than ever, as far as writting style goes. That's the point. We have either bubbly teen books or hamfisted political allegories. Marvel's "Diversity" is nothing more than a catchy tune. There's no real diversity in Marvel. Everyone has the same voice, the same flaws, the same problems. It's like having a choice between a red stick figure, a blue stick figure and a green stick figure. At least in my opinion.

Which is Moon Knight? Or was that book cancelled? I'm not fully up-to-date on Daredevil and Silk and Spider-Gwen and the Spider-Verse, but last I read none of those were bubbly or particularly allegorical. Is there still a Punisher book? Seems that would be a good place to look. And I'm pretty sure not everyone's friend was killed in a drive-by, like Riri. It's a fairly unique problem to have. Sure, there are echoes of Peter Parker and Uncle Ben, but as far as heroes to pattern after, that's a good one.

Opinions are fine, maybe we should start an opinion thread so people here can talk about Minimates. I totally promise to come to it and discuss this more.

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22 minutes ago, DSTZach said:

Yes! Unmade costumes or legacy/alt-universe versions of six main Avengers. Plus two villains, mainly known for fighting specific Avengers, rather than the entire team.

Six main Avengers....

Hydra Cap

RiRi IronMan

Unworthy Thor

Kate Bishop Hawkeye

Vision (Vision of his Family. maybe a ghost WCA all white Vision)

Quicksilver Green

But I am failing at the alt-universe...

 

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Hydra Cap- somewhat storyline specific unmade look for a main Avenger

Unworthy Thor- somewhat storyline specific unmade look for a main Avenger

Modern Wasp/Vision- unmade look for a main Avenger

Ironheart- unmade legacy Avenger

Spider-Verser- Spider-Man has been a major Avenger for the last 13ish years, but apparently this one isn't AU Peter Parker. Are any of the Spider-Versers AU Avengers?

X-Man- Presumably, they must be an Avenger too. X-face Cyclops seemed perfect, but I don't think he's ever been an Avenger. Would Rogue count as a main Avenger?

Executioner- Asgardian villain known for fighting Thor.

Cosmic character- A cosmic villain best known for fighting a specific Avenger.

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10 hours ago, DSTZach said:

Can't you just not read those four books? Seems like that's a small percentage of Marvel's output and easy to avoid. 

 They're more than you think. Marvel publishes around 60 titles per month. Most of them are stealth minis that they market as ongoings. They charge 5$ for the first issue ("8 extra pages" woo), and before issue 3 hits the stands, they announce its cancellation. Really, look at the current schedule:

Spoiler

 

-Secret Empire: Another mediocre event which is basically reheated Hickman leftovers plus some "le politics by le enlightned Spencer".

-Looooots of tie-ins.

-Captain America: The Sam Wilson book where nothing happens (seriously, it's a piss-poor attempt at political coverage that wastes two pages of recap every issue) and Steve Rogers, which is just a companion book to Secret Empire. The latter was better than the Marvel Average.

-Captain Marvel: On her 4th relaunch since she took the name, Carol faces... the problems of being YAAAAS QUEEEN (check the solicit of issue 1 of the current vol). Yeah, woo, I guess...

-X-Men Blue: Pretty good, all things considered. Classic X-Heroics.

-X-Men Gold: The series where the editor was so useless, anti-Christian and anti-Semitic propaganda by the pro-Muslim artist got past him. It was all over the news for about a week or so. Apart from that, it's yet another "muh extermination" book. Nothing new.

-Doctor Strange: An absymal piece of horsecrap that I'm ashamed I have in my collection. It goes against decades of established continuity and changed Stephen into Magic RDJ. There's nothing unique about the stories, and the whole book hinges on Bachalo's crazy designs. It's yet another "Stephen loses his power and acts OOC" book, because Aaron is such an unimaginative hack, all he can do is reuse old stories.

-Amazing Spider-Man: Slott's gonna Slott. It's not a bad book, all things considered, but it's mostly Batman Incorporated under a different name. And when you charge 10$ for a single issue, while double-shipping, you better have a good story to tell.

-U.S. Avengers: Quirky fun by Ewing that nobody buys because the rosters the guy is given are always full of D-Listers. 

-Secret Warriors: Stealth mini in disguise whose only purpose is to push Synergy-Quake/Inhumans and tarnish the name of Hickman's brilliant book.

-Avengers: We got 5 issues of a dragged out Kang story that went nowhere, and it seems as if the book's just killing time. One issue was about a quasi-"flashback" to a previously unknown member (OC). It's just... when you ship your book once per month and charge 4$ for it, I expect something more than that. Either way, it's a very mediocre book.

-Champions: Le woke Mark "GONNA SMASH SOME TABLES" Waid trying to be hip n' cool by writting teens yo. Can he do it?! (Protip: He can't).

-Deadpool: The only book that's great, month in, month out.

-Some Inhumans minis.

-Ultimates^2: A damn good Sci-Fi book by Ewing. It's not half as smart as people think, but it's damn good. Problem is, folks don't really care about his rosters, so it's already bellow 20k.

-Invincible Iron Man: Bendis' Pet OC being da best evah.

-Infamous Iron Man: Better than expected, but still nothing to write about.

-Totally Awesome Hulk: It started out as a fun book with Cho's art, but now it's... well, they're doing a "Hulk-with-Wolverine's-Claws" story, so...

-Hulk: A comic about Jen suffering from PTSD that doesn't handle it half as good as it thinks, and turns Jen into a "I love it when mean scream" type of character. The Hulk form appears for the first time in issue 6. It's just average. It tries to do something different (but not that different, PTSD isn't something new in comics) but it fails.

-Mighty Thor: Stupid characterizations aside, it's a gorgeous book with some classic-esque stories. Aaron has a hard-on for "le godz suck" stories though, and it's becoming very stale. Dauterman saves the book TBH.

-Uncanny Avengers: It's good every single month. Honestly, this is the flagship A-Book, not Waid's.

-Peter Parker: It'll probably be funny. The FCBD story was alright.

-Some Spider-Man & Venom minis (including Bendis' Spider-Men II).

-Venom: Just... I... it's bad. That's all you have to know, really. Brock is somehow now an atheist, he loves the symbiote, the symbiote turned "evaaahl" in 1 issue, Flash Thomson got written out in the most stupid way possible, and we're back to "I hate Spuda-Mahn and love braihns". All of Eddie's character development got flushed down the toilet 'cause... dunno, really.

-Spider-Man: Miles is doing... Miles things. Not much to write about. The thing that made Miles unique is now gone, so it's another Spider-Title. 

-Spider-Gwen: Remember how people loved the book because it reminded them of the early days Ultimate Spider-Man? Screw that, let's have a story about Miles and Gwen being destined to screw, and fill the book with dimension hopping Spider-Pigs and AltU stories! 

-Deadpool/Spider-Man: Classic comic book fun by Joe Kelly.

-Ben Reilly: Character assassination by Slott aside, the first issue was alright.

-Renew Your Vows: 10 year old Normie Osborn is CEO of Oscorp... Apart from that, it's the 90s Spider-Man with a kid.

-Ms. Marvel: I never liked the book, but people find it great, so... IDK.

-Black Bolt: Stealth mini. Interesting premise, if nothing else.

-Moon Girl: I hate this book. I truly do. Every issue is just this sorry excuse of a character going "I'm the smartest", the captions then going "she is the smartest, it's official", and then a big name character dropping in to confirm that she is, indeed, the smartest. It's a kids' book so it's not made to appeal to me, but every time I read the solicits I come across the same "Lunella is the smartest person on the planet (check it!), but when [Insert well-known character here] vistis her, will she live up to the expectations (yes, yes she will)?" text, and it drives me nuts.

-Monsters Unleashed: ...I won't even describe this.

-Royals: Yet another Inhumans elaunch that'll go nowhere.

-Daredevil: Matt's now an atheist! And he made a deal with the Purple Man! And... that's it. We're in Issue 20+ and the whole thing was just set-up to reveal the Purple Man thing. It's "dark n' gritty" without doing anything particularly good. It's just... there. Vincent Van Gore was good though.

-Defenders; Diamondback's back! SYNERGY! Sweet Christmas! Doctor Strange Cameo! Punisher Cameo! Elektra Cameo! Hand Ninjas! SYYYYNEEEERGYYYY! "We totes planned this before the Netflix stuff, we swear"...

-Iron Fist: Pretty good. Slow, but it's a big Kung-Fu Tournament.

-Luke Cage: Never tried it. 

-Punisher: Nothing out of the ordinary. Just Punisher killing fools. Pretty enjoyable.

-Jessica Jones: Pretty good. Again a slow burn by Bendis, but JJ was his character, so he can't write her bad.

-Squirrel Girl: Fun book. Not for me, but fun enough. Bubbly teen book.

-America: I'm... I'm not gonna comment on this (pile of trash) further. Bubbly teen book.

-Hawkeye: Eh. Could've been better. Bubbly teen book.

-Doctor Strange & The Sorcerers Supreme: The better DS book. Nothing out of the ordinary, but a good enough capebook.

-Unstoppable Wasp: Bubbly teen book.

-Nick Fury: The character that Nick Fury was chained to the moon for. Good art by ACO, boring character, and one I refuse to even touch because of how he came to be.

-Silver Surfer: Muh Doctor Who FanFic - The Comic

-Gwenpool: Bubbly teen book (that's actually pretty funny).

-BP & The Crew: Already cancelled. Before the 3rd issue even shipped. So, uh, yeah. Regardless of the silly premise and the fact that it's billed as Black Panther and the Crew, with T'Challa being absent so far, it's yet another boring political book.

-Black Panther: Coates raping of the BP Mythos continues! Hooray!

-GotG: Hey bros, you liked Meme-Lord in the movies? Howzabout Wacky Rocket and teeny Groot?! Duggan's book is infinitely better than Bendis' "here's Thanos being defeated off panel by like, the GotG and Carol" version, but it's still a shade of its former (DnA) self.

-I AM GROOT & Rocket: Stealth minis in disguise that I never picked up.

-Thanos: I dropped it 4 issues in. Twas good, but eh. Thanos is dying and is going around killing stuff so that he won't die.

-Astonishing X-Men: First issue hasn't hit yet.

-Jean Grey: Eh. Better than all the Bubbly Teen Books. This one actually has a plot.

-Old Man Logan: Twas a Top-Tier with Lemire. We'll see how the new guy does.

-All-New Wolverine: Pretty good thus far. Nothing extraordinary, but good enough.

-Weapon X: The first issue was mediocre, at best.

-Generation X: Bubbly teen book that'll be cancelled by issue 6 because its main cast features goddamn Eye-Boy...

-Iceman: First issue isn't out yet. Not expecting much.

-Cable: Average first issue.

-Some Deadpool minis.

-Star Wars line: The extras are mediocre, the main book is good enough, and Vader remains the only book truly worth reading.

 

 

 

 That's for the month of August.We'll probably get another relaunch in October with their Legacy/Make Mine Marvel/Whatever Name They Are Going With This Time Banner. You can go to comicbookroundup to check the average scores (it's like RT but for comics). Not that it matters to this particular case, since like I said, this is all my opinion.

 Either way, I wouldn't search for any "logic" in my comments. I simply do not like the current crop of titles. Too many unknowns, too much agenda pushing, too many lies, etc, etc. Everyone sounds and acts the same. There's a clear "if you don't believe/support X, you're Y" mentality that is evident in all their books. And I simply do not like that. As soon as July with the relaunch rolls around, and their current titles are once again cancelled, I'm out completely. Unless, of course, they change writers, get competent editors, stop their idotic "crusade" and produce something worthwile, in my eyes at least.

10 hours ago, DSTZach said:

For someone who dislikes Bendis, you seem to follow his books religiously. 

 Eh, I follow characters. But Marvel keeps giving him all of the ones I like, so I'm obliged to at least check it out. It's not my fault he fails to deliver every single time. I don't dislike him, I'm just dissapointed at how awful his current output is. Instead of minimizing his problems, he went all "cranked up to eleven !1!" on them.

10 hours ago, DSTZach said:

Wait, all of Marvel's titles are trash?

 Most of them, yeah. IMO always. Maybe trsh is overtly harsh. But there are some books that are downright trash, some average ones, and a handful of genuinely good titles, so the whole output, to my eyes, is less than average.

10 hours ago, DSTZach said:

Which is Moon Knight? Or was that book cancelled? I'm not fully up-to-date on Daredevil and Silk and Spider-Gwen and the Spider-Verse, but last I read none of those were bubbly or particularly allegorical. Is there still a Punisher book? Seems that would be a good place to look. And I'm pretty sure not everyone's friend was killed in a drive-by, like Riri. It's a fairly unique problem to have. Sure, there are echoes of Peter Parker and Uncle Ben, but as far as heroes to pattern after, that's a good one.

 Bendis' Moon Knight came out in 2011 and was awful. The current book ended last week and was just another "le MaRcccCC is Cra-Y--Cr-Ay" story stretched out in 14 issues. Ellis introduced the idea that Khonshu acted like a bacteria, and made a "nest" in Marc's mind. Lemire just made Marc have a case of DiD/Mental Illness, did away with that retcon, and the whole run ended with Marc again saying "F U" to Khonshu and then... ending. Yeah, 1 year and a bit wasted on Marc being in a hospital, going on a mind-trip, then walking on the roof, saying "begone" and then... that was it. I spent about 60 euros for that. So, yeah...

 Daredevil, like I said, is still grim n' gritty, but without actually doing anything. Silk ended a while back and it was "bubbly" Not Hellcat bubbly, but still. Not that I minded. Silk was a good book. No "messages", no undertones, just a well-written book. The Spider-Warriors book ended a looong time ago and it was less than average. Punisher is nothing exceptional, and Spider-Gwen is goign with Alt-U storylines and Peter Porker, so...

 As for Riri, the problem isn't the character, it's how she came to be. Imagine this Batman story, and then tell me if that'd be something you'd read:

-Riddler becomes a good guy out of the blue and randomly appears once every two issues to remind Batman that he "wants to help".

-The Riddler thing goes nowhere, and now Batman is in Japan with Nightwing and Superman. They defeat the evil ninjas and... leave. That's the end of that story.

-An event happens, and Nightwing dies in the first issue.

-In the Batman series' final issue, Batman traps Riddler, asks him why he's helping him and... we never learn the why. It's never revealed. The book just ends there. It's not brought up again.

-In the event's final issue, Batman falls in a coma.

-But hey, this kid you've seen for 5 panels in the course of 12 issues has now been selected by Batman to be... Batman!

-Alfred and AI Bruce are now training this random kid who's going around pretending to be Batman.

-Oh, and everybody loves this kid! The JL, the Titans, everybody!

 Now does that sound like a good Batman story? 

Edited by Kostisfire
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I'm currently only reading X-Men: Gold and Avengers, so I can't comment on the others.

For X-Men: Gold, the Syaf thing definitely should have been caught, but Marvel's dealt with it as best they can. I'm not sure what you mean by "muh extermination", though, because the point of the book is that mutants aren't going extinct, at least for the time being, so the X-Men can catch their breaths. Admittedly, I'm reading it more for the characters than the creative team, but Guggenheim's done much better than I expected.

I'm not caught up on Avengers yet, but if the Kang story goes nowhere as you say, that'll be disappointing. I'm liking it so far.

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19 minutes ago, BuffaloDelorean said:

I'm currently only reading X-Men: Gold and Avengers, so I can't comment on the others.

For X-Men: Gold, the Syaf thing definitely should have been caught, but Marvel's dealt with it as best they can. I'm not sure what you mean by "muh extermination", though, because the point of the book is that mutants aren't going extinct, at least for the time being, so the X-Men can catch their breaths. Admittedly, I'm reading it more for the characters than the creative team, but Guggenheim's done much better than I expected.

I'm not caught up on Avengers yet, but if the Kang story goes nowhere as you say, that'll be disappointing. I'm liking it so far.

 I'm talking about the plot. It's yet another "humans don't trust us and we're gonna fight back", etc, etc. It's become the defacto plot for X-Men and it's boring. We get it, they're "allegories" (as much as a person who can hurl skyscrapers can be), but why not do something different for once? Mutants experiments by literal Eldritch Abominations. Why are they not tapping that source? There are tons of themes you can touch, from transhumanism to penetheism. But nah, another mutants v humans story is what we need.

 As for Avengers, it's not that it was a bad story, just... eh. The Kang plot over at Uncanny Avengers was much better and fleshed out. Waid's one was... a two-part story bloated into five. The current book is just redundant. Uncanny Avengers is doing a much better job of being an Avengers book TBH.

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Agreed!

Im super excited to find out the reveal of this wave 74! My vote for one of the villains is Count Nefaria! I know he fought the Avengers, Just not sure if he fought any of them individually. Another guess would be Living Laser! HE has fought Iron Man on one or more occasions. 

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21 hours ago, DSTZach said:

Yes! Unmade costumes or legacy/alt-universe versions of six main Avengers. Plus two villains, mainly known for fighting specific Avengers, rather than the entire team.

I love this game!  What if it's something like:

Cho Hulk / The Unworthy Odinson

80s Black Widow / 80s Cap (aka the USAgent)

Kate Bishop Hawkeye / Madame Masque

Iron Doom / The Maker

 

It's a funky line up, but, I dunno, maybe it works.  That said, I'd totally love if "Legacy Avenger" meant we finally got a version of Genis-Vell either in his long hair, jacket phase or his cleaned up space-face look, but I feel like that won't ever be the case.

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I think only two of the Avengers in 74 have been guessed! Although a couple of the guesses in this thread are actually in TRU 24...

ANY Spider-Verser is an alt-universe and/or legacy version of at LEAST one Avenger: Peter Parker Spidey. They don't have to be Peter Parker.

One of the Avengers is also an X-Man.

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