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14 hours ago, DSTZach said:

I'm very interested to read Invincible Iron Man and see why people here are so quick to voice their dislike of Riri WIlliams.

 Alright, I'll help. See, it goes like this:

1) Bendis launches the bi-monthly Invincible Iron Man book. He and Marvel promise that it'll be the new flagship.

2) Brings back a slightly OOC Doom Post-SW.

3) The book moves at a snail's pace.

4) Bendis announces International Iron Man, as a buddy-cop Tony/Victor book travelling the globe.

5) Invincible starts teasing Bendis' Pet OC. Doom disappears.

6) International turns out to be a mini whose only purpose is to explore that Gillen "Tony is adopted" thing. In the end, Tony is the son of a singer-turned-SHIELD Agent and a SHIELD-Agent-turned-HYDRA, who's killed by his mother. Yup, new origin of Tony Stark right there...

7) Bendis' Pet OC gets some more panel-time once in a while.

8) CWII hits. Doom appears, and the series ends on a cliffhanger.

And then BAM! Ironheart and Infamous hit the shelves! Tony meets this random girl, and goes "hey luv, have my armour an' resources alright?". Which, yeah, the guy who's known for being overprotective of his tech and IP would be giving it away at the first person he meets. Because that's kinda what happened. Hell, kids building IM suits with leaked Stark schematics has been a plot-point before, and all Tony did was shut.them.down...

 In the end, it's just Bendis being Bendis, and since Marvel's in the gutter and he's their "Best Boy", he gets to do whatever the hell he wants. Instead of at least building up his Pet OC in the main title and having her be his protegee, he "killed" Tony, and then had him turn over control to the mother he just met, and give all his resources to this random teenage girl. It's just... it makes me angry just thinking about it...

 Long story short, it's just Bendis inserting one of his adopted daughters into the book and feeling good about himself, while giving continuity and hell, logic itself, the finger and saying "I'M BENDHISAGAHA".

 Fuck Bendis, and fuck Ironheart... 

Spoiler

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14 hours ago, DSTZach said:

Put Pepper Potts or Dr. Doom in a suit of Iron Man armor, and everyone's all excited...

Spoiler

 

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 Sorry, I've wanted to use that for a while...

 

Well, IMO... probably beacuse those transformations had build-up? Because those characters had extensive history with Tony? Because they can handle it? Maybe because they weren't just self-inserts? 

 Pepper got the Rescue suit, not the main IM armour, after what, 40 issues of build-up? She didn't upstage Tony or sideline him, but got a unique version of the Iron Man suit which added to her character and lengthened her arc. Besides, Potts and Tony go waaaaaaay back. There was really nothing wrong with Fraction's take on it, as the events slowly added up and built towards that "end goal" of Pepper suiting up as Rescue.

 Doom has tons of history with Stark. From the IM/Doom Time-Travel Trilogy, to the various minis where they appeared together, he and Stark always had a relationship that was more than, say, Victor had with Magneto. It was the scientific version of Doom's understanding with Doctor Strange. So there was history to build upon. Nevertheless, Doom turning "hero", was the result of Hickman's whole Avengers saga. So you have, what, 8 years(?) worh of character development, plus a whole Mega-Event, building up towards Doom "letting go". Is it a bit weird that he chose IM? Maybe, but... not so much. Richards is God, Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme, so Doom set his sights on getting on Tony's good side first.

 Now, the problem with Infamous was that it was too rushed, and it's currently full of Bendis' "dragging on and on" style, but it's a story that was going to be told. And Infamous is just the first part, really. Another writer could've done it better, but it's a story worth exploring and telling.

----

 In the end, I think you can see why the majority of comic fans would prefer reading about already established characters progressing, rather than the writer's Pet OC Mary Sue getting all the spotlight because he's too much of a spoiled and lazy fuck to write actual stories...

 

Edited by Kostisfire
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9 hours ago, DSTZach said:

I'm very interested to read Invincible Iron Man and see why people here are so quick to voice their dislike of Riri WIlliams.

Put Pepper Potts or Dr. Doom in a suit of Iron Man armor, and everyone's all excited...

Preach.

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6 hours ago, BuffaloDelorean said:

For me, it's just that I dislike Bendis' writing style and the costume is too similar to Invincible Iron Man. The new Wasp bothers me more, but that's because she's connected to characters I like.

 Bendis is basically mad with power right now. He can't write any new indie stuff 'cause he loses interest way too fast to build up a whole world, and Marvel's so completely out of A-List writers that he can basically do whatever the hell he wants. So, he's free to create his own Spider-Man and his own Iron Man, and do whatever the goddamn hell he fancies. Screw continuity, screw character development. Alonso has brought Marvel to the ground, and Bendis is just having a field day.

 I mean, for Heaven's sake, we're talking about the company that's currently publishing this:

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 So, you know, it's really not worth getting upset over. I've just accepted that until the CBM bubble bursts, Marvel Comics will be specifically for Twitter bloggers and MCU lovers. Maybe one day Marvel will get back on its feet, but until then, I'm happy reading books from DC, Image and Valiant, for as soon as Infamous ends and Marvel relaunches once again, I'm out. And honestly? I stopped giving a damn. The only thing Marvel's good for at this point is shitposting at forums and making fun of their trash. I just pit Ewing. The guy's a literal Continuity Wizard, who's doing damage control for the majority of Marvel books, but they always give him D-Listers to work with.

PS: I forgot about Darth Vader. Yeah, I'm pulling that one 'cause normies can't possibly ruin that.

3 hours ago, NerdyTrev said:

I love your posts Kostis, they make me happy :D

Great insight too. 

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1 hour ago, Polarboy said:

whats a pet oc?

26 minutes ago, MisterPL said:

 

I believe "OC" refers to "original character."

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 Pet OC is just the character that the writer is (sorta) self-projecting, and writes him/her as this uber awesome person who everyone likes, always gets the last work, is great at everything, etc, etc, and his/her flaws are of the "oh noes, I got a 9/10, woe is me". In Bendis' case, Riri is just a stand-in for one of his daughters and it shows. Waaaaay too much...

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10 minutes ago, youbastards said:

Does this version of Scarlet Spider count as "unmade"?  I can't keep the clone $#*& straight anymore.  Is this Ben Reilly or Kaine?

Scarlet-Spider-1-featured.jpg

 The internet cried so much, that they're getting rid of this costume by issue 5 or so.

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38 minutes ago, Kostisfire said:

Marvel's so completely out of A-List writers

Mark Waid, Greg Pak, Daniel Slott, Jim Starlin,   G. Willow Wilson... Yeah, I'm not seeing that argument. You can say you don't like stuff but you can't really say they don't have a talent roster. I get not liking Bendis' work or not liking his characters but I don't think he's running amok at Marvel when he is only writing a few books. I can see why he gets opportunities since he took a chance and made a subuniverse relevant and managed to have the longest running comic run out of it. His douche bag version of Tony helped inspire the movie and that helped launch the largest successful franchise in years.  I'm personally not enjoying his current work outside of Miles but that's preference.

Also, what's so wrong with Miss America? I'm not a Miss America fan but the most thought I give it is when I scroll over it in the comics apps. If it's not for you, it's just not for you. Same way you feel about those books people feel that you read/like for example the New 52 was complete garbage to me. Nothing was worth reading in that relaunch to me so I just slowly dropped out of those titles. Even Rebirth is hit or miss to me. People just like what they like and as long as they get minimates of characters that they like and I get minimates that I like, I'm good.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, thereasonsy said:

Mark Waid, Greg Pak, Daniel Slott, Jim Starlin,   G. Willow Wilson... Yeah, I'm not seeing that argument.

 Mark "I'LL TURN SOME MOTHERFRICKING TABLES" Waid? Long Rant, it's towards the end.

 He was good. Very good. But now he's not. He's churning out mediocre story after mediocre story, and his Champions reeks of "fellow kids". Even his Daredevil run out of steam after the relaunch.

 Jim Starlin? The guy has his own little continuity and doesn't give two fricks about the rest of the Marvel U. He got out his Thanos fan-fic once again, ignored Secret Wars, and that was it... Oh, wait, yeah, he wrote a Guardians book nobody read what, a year ago? Either way, he's not a current writter.

 Dan... Slott... Really? The guy who turned Silver Surfer into bland Doctor Who fanfic and has made Spider-Man unreadable? Sure, he's well-known, I'll give you that.

 GW.W... Yeah, she's writting Ms. Marvel... And, uh... nothing else... Her other comics include Ms. Marvel and... two Vertigo books. Hardly A-List. And that goes for both popularity and quality. 

 In the end, where's Hickman? Remender? Gillen? Ellis? Morrison? Even Lemire is leaving Marvel. Their biggest name is Aaron, who's just rehashing his past work. Where is Priest, whose Deathstroke book is absolutely destroying everything Marvel puts out? Where is Gaiman and his Miracle Man story? Where's Rucka? Where's Fraction? Where's Azzarello?

 All of them have gone indie, or are at DC. And whereas DC is building some stars with King, Orlando, Tomassi and the like, Marvel's new crop constitutes of this:

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 Oh yeah, they shoved Conway in a Carnage book and now have him on a Spider-Man AU they refuse to promote 'cause "muh reletable Parker"... Plus PAD, who hasn't turned in anything worthwhile ever since X-Factor ended, and is currently on the run from the IRS...

1 hour ago, thereasonsy said:

Mark Waid, Greg Pak, Daniel Slott, Jim Starlin,   G. Willow Wilson... Yeah, I'm not seeing that argument. You can say you don't like stuff but you can't really say they don't have a talent roster. I get not liking Bendis' work or not liking his characters but I don't think he's running amok at Marvel when he is only writing a few books. I can see why he gets opportunities since he took a chance and made a subuniverse relevant and managed to have the longest running comic run out of it. His douche bag version of Tony helped inspire the movie and that helped launch the largest successful franchise in years.  I'm personally not enjoying his current work outside of Miles but that's preference.

 Bendis absolutely has power at Marvel. I mean, just look at the crap he's pulling. You think someone like Ewing could've been given Iron Man, and then allowed to kill off the main character, scrap the spin-off, and then replace the main book with his OC? Remender pitched lots of supernatural books (the team over at Uncanny Avengers annual was used as a gateway to it) and Alonso turned them down. Alonso also turned down Doctor Strange books, until Aaron's one, which so Goddamn awful I'd need 2 hours to type out a complete rant. Bendis run the Guardians to the ground, erased everything from the DnA era (that was two years before the movie hit) and got permission to use characters like Venom, Captain Marvel, Thing, Kitty Pryde and even the newly acquired Angela. Bendis is currently writting: Spider-Man, Iron Man, Iron Spin-Off, Jessica Jones and Defenders. 5 books. 5! 

1 hour ago, thereasonsy said:

Also, what's so wrong with Miss America? I'm not a Miss America fan but the most thought I give it is when I scroll over it in the comics apps. 

 What's wrong with Ms. America? Lines like "holy menstruation". Dropping slang in every damn sentence. Ugly art. Awful transitions.

 I mean, damn, Hitler comes out of nowhere and she... punches him.

dv6-2hwsNbOg0z97YXe0q4nI_Pw3ik-1UIwaEEJI

 Yeah... I guess Hitler run around the Battlefields. And America, someone who's spent years on Earth, and was a Young Avenger, doesn't know Cap. Nah, he's just "mad familiar". And then, get this... Hitler is taken away! Yeah!

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  So, yeah, I guess Captain America and Peggy Carter came across Hitler on the Battlefield, Chavez punched him and... nobody did nothing while Nazis carried him away. Now look at this:

hfDbZfzxz4x5nSyDcM7P-e0z5kRM3_EP163U7KG2

 What's going on there? Is she tied? Is that some kinda fricked up role-play? Is that supposed to be holding her hostage? Why is she sitting like that? What is going on?! There's more, but... you get the point.

 

1 hour ago, thereasonsy said:

If it's not for you, it's just not for you. Same way you feel about those books people feel that you read/like for example the New 52 was complete garbage to me. Nothing was worth reading in that relaunch to me so I just slowly dropped out of those titles. Even Rebirth is hit or miss to me. People just like what they like and as long as they get minimates of characters that they like and I get minimates that I like, I'm good.  

 Look, honest talk... REBIRTH is just nostalgia capes. It's not groundbreaking, but at least it's not bad (Deathstroke's brilliant though, with Wild Storm being enjoyable as well). Marvel's baaaaad. Reeeeeal bad. And it goes beyond RedPillers/SJWs/Cucks/Nazis/Whatever buzzword each group uses. The books are mediocre, boring, stale and just... bad. Cape books have turned to capeshit, period. Wanna read some actually good comics? Head for Image, Dark Horse, Valiant, etc, etc.

Edited by Kostisfire
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2 hours ago, Kostisfire said:

You think someone like Ewing could've been given Iron Man, and then allowed to kill off the main character, scrap the spin-off, and then replace the main book with his OC?

Nope. I also didn't see Ewing raise his hand and launch the Ultimate Universe or turn the Avengers into a best seller. Again, don't get me wrong I'm not here to stan for Bendis because quite frankly I was happy with how the Avengers were before they got disassembled but the fact is when you earn millions of dollars for a company versus earning thousands you are clearly going to get a much larger runway to do whatever you want to. To translate it to TV, look at Ryan Murphy's career. He did great work for three seasons on FX with Nip/Tuck and then the gloves came off. He launched Glee, it made a ton of people a ton of money and now FOX let's him do whatever he wants on two different networks. It's business. Until Ewing or someone else can start to show a return on investment (significant buzz), make them money through increased sales, or just gets an editor that say eff it this book is dead anyway just do whatever you want, they aren't going to get that level of opportunity because they don't work for themselves. Look at Claremont himself. If anyone should have earned the trust of Marvel to do whatever it should have been him. He said "I'm going to just kill Wolverine for a months and then resurrect him as a Hand assassin next year and then..." Marvel response "Imma gonna stop you right there and say not in my house". And one of the most successful writers in comics walks. It's a business. This is the same with all of the companies. 

   

2 hours ago, Kostisfire said:

Look, honest talk... REBIRTH is just nostalgia capes. It's not groundbreaking, but at least it's not bad (Deathstroke's brilliant though, with Wild Storm being enjoyable as well). Marvel's baaaaad. Reeeeeal bad. And it goes beyond RedPillers/SJWs/Cucks/Nazis/Whatever buzzword each group uses. The books are mediocre, boring, stale and just... bad. Cape books have turned to capeshit, period. Wanna read some actually good comics? Head for Image, Dark Horse, Valiant, etc, etc.

You've clearly given this a lot of thought but, to what end. Again. It's not for me so I just scroll by and treat it like it's a Kardashian. As for the writers and why you don't like them again that is preference. From an industry stand point you are talking about a list of writers that collectively have sold millions of books between them over their collective careers and have amassed several trophies. I AM NOT SAYING THAT INDICATES MY DEFINITION OF TALENT (i.e. Billboard music awards) just that saying they aren't A List is a wee bit short sighted.  There are TONS of other creators that I personally love that aren't considered A List like Sean McKeever and Jay Faerber others that are Brian K Vaughan or a Gail Simone. Vote with your wallet. Including the merchandise associated with it. My point being why spend the energy trashing them instead of focusing on what makes a good figure or should be made into a figure because even if you aren't buying the books in trashing them you are inadvertently promoting them by giving them press or social media impressions which gives the impression that this is good because fans are passionate. 

 

   

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1 hour ago, thereasonsy said:

Nope. I also didn't see Ewing raise his hand and launch the Ultimate Universe or turn the Avengers into a best seller. Again, don't get me wrong I'm not here to stan for Bendis because quite frankly I was happy with how the Avengers were before they got disassembled but the fact is when you earn millions of dollars for a company versus earning thousands you are clearly going to get a much larger runway to do whatever you want to. To translate it to TV, look at Ryan Murphy's career. He did great work for three seasons on FX with Nip/Tuck and then the gloves came off. He launched Glee, it made a ton of people a ton of money and now FOX let's him do whatever he wants on two different networks. It's business. Until Ewing or someone else can start to show a return on investment (significant buzz), make them money through increased sales, or just gets an editor that say eff it this book is dead anyway just do whatever you want, they aren't going to get that level of opportunity because they don't work for themselves. Look at Claremont himself. If anyone should have earned the trust of Marvel to do whatever it should have been him. He said "I'm going to just kill Wolverine for a months and then resurrect him as a Hand assassin next year and then..." Marvel response "Imma gonna stop you right there and say not in my house". And one of the most successful writers in comics walks. It's a business. This is the same with all of the companies. 

 I wouldn't say Bendis defined the Ultimate Universe. He just got the Spider-Man gig, and his "realistic speak" was new at the time, leading people to fawn over his overdrawn plots. I will admit that he was good back then, sure, but I'd argue Millar's Ultimates set the tone for the Ult-Verse, while Ult-Spider made it explode in popularity, due it being a brand new starting point for one of the most well known heroes.

 Still, that's not really the point. It's that Bendis is practically free to do whatever he wants currently. He could ask to write a book about Killraven and Arkon alongside Morgana Le Fay, and he'd probably get it. The sales could fall to 5k, but until he got bored, he could write it. And it's never good when a writer, especially one like Bendis, who has no respect for continuity or the works of others, manages to amass such power.

1 hour ago, thereasonsy said:

You've clearly given this a lot of thought but, to what end. Again. It's not for me so I just scroll by and treat it like it's a Kardashian. As for the writers and why you don't like them again that is preference. From an industry stand point you are talking about a list of writers that collectively have sold millions of books between them over their collective careers and have amassed several trophies. I AM NOT SAYING THAT INDICATES MY DEFINITION OF TALENT (i.e. Billboard music awards) just that saying they aren't A List is a wee bit short sighted.  There are TONS of other creators that I personally love that aren't considered A List like Sean McKeever and Jay Faerber others that are Brian K Vaughan or a Gail Simone. Vote with your wallet. Including the merchandise associated with it. My point being why spend the energy trashing them instead of focusing on what makes a good figure or should be made into a figure because even if you aren't buying the books in trashing them you are inadvertently promoting them by giving them press or social media impressions which gives the impression that this is good because fans are passionate.

 Well, I'd say the A-List thing is just a metric of visibillity, and it generally means folks who, in their field, have amassed critical acclaim, as well as found commercial success, and are big enough names to have people try each one of their projects. I mean, whatever Kirkman laucnhes, it well sell. But if GWW tries to launch an indie title, it won't have the same fanbase as Remender's Black Science or Hickman's East of West. And going by that, Marvel is lacking both the Big Names, and new writers with distinct styles and voices.

 As for the trashing, well, Zach asked why folks hate Riri, and as one of those (well, hate's a strong word... maybe dislike... to be honest, I prefer Riri to Moon Girl... now that's a POS character), I tried to just give a summary. I've stopped visiting comic book websites and have trimmed my pull list extensively. It wasn't as much trashing as a recap with a few snide remarks. I mean, it was just one comment...

--------------

 Figure aside, I'm down for villains. Apart from that... eh. I'd do nasty things for a HYDRA High Council Secret Empire Wave TBH.

Edited by Kostisfire
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Bendis is an interesting figure in Marvel. As far as I'm concerned, he's very good at writing deconstructive stories starring snarky/sarcastic street level characters without too much emphasis on continuity and little in the way time constraints. My problems with him arise when he tries to write more traditional "cape books". His deconstructive and decompressed writing style clashes with more adventurous stories that require a little more suspension of disbelief. He took the Avengers and salvaged their sales, but he also changed the fundamental nature of the team. I'm not really a fan of the immediately pre-Bendis Avengers (post-Busiek Geoff Johns & Chuck Austen), but even when the writing was dull, predictable, or just bad, it felt more like the team I knew than New Avengers. I understand why people like his work (well, some of it, anyway), but it isn't really for me. Grant Morrison and Jonathan Hickman are similar in that regard.

I like some of Marvel's current books. The roster of Waid's Avengers didn't seem like it really felt like the team to me, but I bought the first issue on a whim and quite liked it. The first issue of Thunderbolts was good too, although it focuses a little too much on Bucky and Kobik for my liking. I can't say I dislike Ironheart or America Chavez (although the latter does seem to have some pretty cringeworthy writing), I just don't really care about the characters or their designs. I've heard good things about Al Ewing's Ultimates, though, and America's in that. Maybe I'd like her better if I'd get around to reading it. The new Wasp does bother me a bit, since she's getting a spotlight while her predecessors (Hank Pym & Janet van Dyne) really aren't, and haven't for a good while. Everything I've read with her has seemed pretty irritating, too. Still, her design is good, and she'd add to the current Avengers roste, so It'd be nice to get a Nadia Pym minimate.

I'd much rather a new Janet, though. Or seven.

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My problem with Bendis is the he can't write characters, plural, just one character, singular, and whatever Character he's writing just melds into that character that he writes.  

I've cancelled most of my DC and Marvel pull list these days. This thread is good, though, and I give it at least two thumbs up.

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I would agree with this assessment. He's the Seth Rogen of comic book writing. Seth plays one last really well. I assume that's just "who he is." Cast him in that role, he'll kill it. Same with Bendis. Need a Spider-Man style insecure hero who quips to hide his insecurity? You're golden. Need ANYONE else? They may lose the insecurity, but they're still gonna be a smartass.

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8 hours ago, youbastards said:

Does this version of Scarlet Spider count as "unmade"?  I can't keep the clone $#*& straight anymore.  Is this Ben Reilly or Kaine?

Scarlet-Spider-1-featured.jpg

It's "Ben Reilly", but only in the Marvel way of using the characters name, completely changing their entire personality and making the character unlikable in the process.  The costume could have worked without the stupid "smile", but they are trying to make "Ben" into a cheap Deadpool/Spidey imitation.  Additionally, they're destroying the character development that's been done on Kaine over the past 5 years or so.  

If we were looking for other Spider characters to make, I would hope to get an animated Steel Spider, Blood-Spider or Spider-Army character first or Spidercide, Spider-Minions and Superior Venom. 

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To clarify, I did not ASK why people do not like Riri Williams. I definitely did not ask why KOSTIS does not like Riri Williams, because oh boy.

I SAID I was looking forward to READING the new series so I could SEE why people do not like her.

I only read the first few issues of this Invincible relaunch, but I enjoyed them, up to and including "awesome facial hair bros." I like seeing new takes on characters, and Tony Stark is not the most constant of people, so I have no problem with him deciding after a certain point to let one person have his suit of armor. I would be more shaken up if Doom decided to "take up the mantle" of Iron Man and act like a superhero. But I have started to read that book, too.

I've been reading Iron Man pretty regularly since the first Armor Wars, so I think I'm as entitled to be offended by a storyline as anyone, but I don't, because they're just stories.

Edited by DSTZach
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