Wave 69 - Multiverse Wishlist/Classic

[EricM]

I remember the 1st Xmen comics I saw and read were the Claremont/Paul Smith issues. And got to collecting the XMen in the 90s with the Jim Lee run. 

I know with comic characters they have to evolve and change but sometimes the changes aren't for the better.

[stack32]

It's probably worth having this comment from the TMNT thread in the Wave 69 thread:

20 hours ago, DSTZach said:

Similarly, the specialty-exclusive Series 69 was an example of us taking character suggestions from the fans here -- a good idea, I think everyone here would agree. We chose to focus on Avengers requests because we'd done a lot of X-Men, but maybe we should have stuck with the X-theme, because I don't think the line did as well as prior waves. Maybe the theme was not as cohesive as series 60 or 68, maybe the characters were not current enough, maybe Enchantress's hair was just too damn short. But I think Series 72 did similar numbers for specialty, so who knows.

[Ronan The Accuser]

I never got to comment on this wave and wanted to express my appreciation. I thought this was a great wave and was very pleased with the overall selection. Classic Falcon is the standout for me, THAT'S  the Falcon i've been waiting for! He looks amazing posed next to Cap. I bought an extra to put in my Avengers display.

Black Knight is another missing Avenger who was long overdue. I'm more of a yellow over gold guy,(love the four color looks) but even that couldn't diminish my happiness to add him to my collection.

Tigra and Enchantress turned out great, I wouldn't change a thing with either. The Blizzards look good and the Donnie version really pops on the shelf, love that blue. The crazed look on the originals face is priceless and the ice accessories are top notch. My ideal Blizzard is the ice ninja look but I can't complain after seeing these two. Hopefully we'll see that one at a later date.

The Mandroids fit in nicely with my Shield agents and give the set a fuller look. I bought four of these guys to spread out on the shelf. I wish they had a little more extension in the torso piece and slightly smaller shoulder pads but that's my only complaint about this set.

These kind of waves, along with the classic X-Men, are the ones that get me fired up and remind me why I started collecting this line.

I hope to see more like it and I'm sad to hear they may not have sold as well as others.

[thereasonsy]

22 minutes ago, Ronan The Accuser said:

These kind of waves, along with the classic X-Men, are the ones that get me fired up and remind me why I started collecting this line.

I hope to see more like it and I'm sad to hear they may not have sold as well as others.

AMEN!

[Nessex]

[stack32]

I wonder if having a stronger theme drives sales? I love this wave because it knocked out one of my biggest wants (Black Knight), it was at least partially Avengers-related, and I found every character worthwhile but I can see the how the the somewhat random nature of the choices might not appeal to some people. Also, Enchantress and Falcon would have been perfect fits for different themes. And the wave isn't without weaknesses. Outside of the Mandroid and Black Knight there aren't alternate looks. It feels a lot like a parts reuse wave even though there are a number of new parts. The Mandroid suffers a little from having no new parts, though I doubt that had much of an impact on sales. Finally, I think two Blizzards was too many. Gregor Shapanka is a nice minimate but since most of us had to look him up I have to think another character would have been a selling point.

[BuffaloDelorean]

I skipped the Gregor Shapanka pack, although his ice "cane" looked cool. I would have been a lot more interested if the variant had been the villainous Black Knight.

[stegron01]

Yes I agree with the last couple of posts.  Speaking as an old school avengers fan I loved the concept of this wave as it felt like years since a wave had been aimed at people like me.  However, while I consider the black knight and falcon packs to be great, even I found two blizzards to be pretty obscure.  The frustrating thing is that the recent xmen waves have been themed around teams (both heroes and villains) and while I "get" that xmen apparently sell better for some reason, I feel that a fairer comparison would have been if this wave had also contained two complete teams, for example an avengers team from a certain era vs the masters of evil or the wrecking crew.  At least then DST could have compared like with like.  As it is I fear now that we won't see the like of this wave again for ages, if ever. 

[MisterPL]

I'll tell you who else loves assortments like this; my LCS owner. Anytime a good, old-fashioned selection of classic characters makes an appearance in Minimates form he just gushes with joy. He has no problem ordering them because he knows he'll have no problem moving them, at least in my neck of the woods.

[DSTZach]

Yeah this assortment didn't do as well as others. I though the theme of "Fan-requested" was a selling point, but Avengers vs. X-Men, I guess.

Glad you guys mostly liked it, while still finding things to nit-pick. Best of both worlds, I guess!

[stack32]

4 hours ago, stegron01 said:

The frustrating thing is that the recent xmen waves have been themed around teams (both heroes and villains) and while I "get" that xmen apparently sell better for some reason, I feel that a fairer comparison would have been if this wave had also contained two complete teams, for example an avengers team from a certain era vs the masters of evil or the wrecking crew.  At least then DST could have compared like with like.  As it is I fear now that we won't see the like of this wave again for ages, if ever. 

This is my concern as well. X-Men waves seem to get a strong theme and a nice mix of characters, usually most of a team. Avengers waves, to the extent they even exist, aren't built the same way. Wave 44 would be the closest, but it wasn't really the same and had most of its characters duplicated in exclusive boxsets that were released at the same time. It would be nice to get an Avengers equivalent of wave 68 (or 60, or 59, I could go on) to compare apples to apples.

[BuffaloDelorean]

2 hours ago, stack32 said:

This is my concern as well. X-Men waves seem to get a strong theme and a nice mix of characters, usually most of a team. Avengers waves, to the extent they even exist, aren't built the same way. Wave 44 would be the closest, but it wasn't really the same and had most of its characters duplicated in exclusive boxsets that were released at the same time. It would be nice to get an Avengers equivalent of wave 68 (or 60, or 59, I could go on) to compare apples to apples.

 

While I would agree about the full teams, the Avengers change their clothes a lot less than the X-Men. Pretty much every time there's a new team of X-Men, everyone gets a new costume (with a few exceptions like Wolverine).

Between those three X-Men waves you mentioned, there was zero costume overlap among the members. Most Avengers rosters are only missing a few characters or costumes, so a complete Avengers roster wave is going to involve a lot of redos. Some of them make sense because they're outdated or hard to get (Wasp, some Hank Pyms, Hercules, Vision, Black Panther, Ms. Marvel, Wonder Man, etc.), but the "big three" (and Hawkeye) in their classic bronze age costumes have been covered pretty thoroughly by the Greatest Hits waves. With four of the most popular Avengers' most iconic costumes essentially off the table, the number of viable Avengers rosters get smaller. The only one that really seems like it works to me is the West Coast Avengers. The 90's leather jacket team, too, but it's a little shorter on well-known members.

[Nessex]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloDelorean said:

While I would agree about the full teams, the Avengers change their clothes a lot less than the X-Men. Pretty much every time there's a new team of X-Men, everyone gets a new costume (with a few exceptions like Wolverine).

With the exception of Wasp, who has had more costumes than the X-Men and other avengers combined. LOL

[Turtle]

Great points, BD.  Another big difference between the Avengers and the X-Men (and again, Wolverine is the exception) is that the Avengers are largely popular characters with their own rich legacies.  Cap, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk- the popular, heaviest hitters- all can and have anchored their own waves and/or boxsets.  And many supporting Avengers and villains can fit nicely into those characters' lineups.  Adding in an obscure, never-requested (?) character like Blizzard to take up not one but two slots is an odd choice.  Meanwhile, the X-Men have a huge cast, but aside from Wolverine, I don't think about character could really anchor a wave.  Ok, fine, Deadpool, but if the wave is 50% one character, I don't know if that's really a win.  

[DSTZach]

Blizzard was requested. Maybe not Gregor, but Donald. And Gregor was only one-per-case.

[bigvis497]

I'm happy with both Blizzards. New characters are new characters and I love the lesser knowns.

[Nessex]

This wave was awesome. Despite my telling myself that i'd only be buying X-men figures going forward, this is one I have to have. It appeals to long time collectors of this line, but it sounds like it wasn't a total home run for over-all sales. 

I think the lesson here is that what mass-market wants and what hardcore collectors want is sometimes different. I love obscure characters. I love villains. I love female representation in toy lines. The general public likes Deadpool and Iron Man. And i'm ok with that..

The subsequent lesson is, i think, that if we want to keep seeing waves like this, we need to support them. I don't necessarily mean buying multiple cases of the wave (but by all means, please do if that's your thing), but *do* pre-order with Luke's or your LCS. let the people with the buying power (toy & comic stores) know that you're keen and that you're willing to commit.

[stegron01]

22 hours ago, DSTZach said:

Yeah this assortment didn't do as well as others. I though the theme of "Fan-requested" was a selling point, but Avengers vs. X-Men, I guess.

Glad you guys mostly liked it, while still finding things to nit-pick. Best of both worlds, I guess!

Sorry if some of the comments seem like nitpicking Zach, I don't think that is the intention at all.  As I said I love this wave but the issue seems to be that it didn't sell so well so I think what those of us who are big fans of stuff like this are doing here is looking for reasons that that may be, other than a simplistic "xmen sell better than avengers" answer, in the hope that IF you try a classic avengers wave again it could do better next time.

 

14 hours ago, BuffaloDelorean said:

While I would agree about the full teams, the Avengers change their clothes a lot less than the X-Men. Pretty much every time there's a new team of X-Men, everyone gets a new costume (with a few exceptions like Wolverine).

Between those three X-Men waves you mentioned, there was zero costume overlap among the members. Most Avengers rosters are only missing a few characters or costumes, so a complete Avengers roster wave is going to involve a lot of redos. Some of them make sense because they're outdated or hard to get (Wasp, some Hank Pyms, Hercules, Vision, Black Panther, Ms. Marvel, Wonder Man, etc.), but the "big three" (and Hawkeye) in their classic bronze age costumes have been covered pretty thoroughly by the Greatest Hits waves. With four of the most popular Avengers' most iconic costumes essentially off the table, the number of viable Avengers rosters get smaller. The only one that really seems like it works to me is the West Coast Avengers. The 90's leather jacket team, too, but it's a little shorter on well-known members.

I also see what you are saying here BD, and in many ways avengers "hero v villain" waves may work better based on a single hero, eg thor with the warriors 3 vs thor villains, but there are still a fair few "B" list unmade avengers from the '70's/'80's etc compared to the xmen, at least in my opinion.  (Cue a batch of posts from xmen fans listing the 3000 unmade xmen lol).  And certainly the West Coast Avengers do stand out, as you say.

Edited May 5, 2017 by stegron01

[stack32]

6 hours ago, Nessex said:

The subsequent lesson is, i think, that if we want to keep seeing waves like this, we need to support them. I don't necessarily mean buying multiple cases of the wave (but by all means, please do if that's your thing), but *do* pre-order with Luke's or your LCS. let the people with the buying power (toy & comic stores) know that you're keen and that you're willing to commit.

Unfortunately it seems many collectors are more willing to try to stir up support for our favorites than create an environment where they aren't as much of a risk. As a guy who buys nearly every comic wave I find this a bit frustrating. I guess I don't blame people for not spending money on things they don't want, I'm just surprised more people aren't interested in a wider range of characters.

1 hour ago, stegron01 said:

Sorry if some of the comments seem like nitpicking...

At this point I think posting anything even mildly critical is a problem.

[BuffaloDelorean]

1 hour ago, stegron01 said:

I also see what you are saying here BD, and in many ways avengers "hero v villain" waves may work better based on a single hero, eg thor with the warriors 3 vs thor villains, but there are still a fair few "B" list unmade avengers from the '70's/'80's etc compared to the xmen, at least in my opinion.  (Cue a batch of posts from xmen fans listing the 3000 unmade xmen lol).  And certainly the West Coast Avengers do stand out, as you say.

 

I'm not saying we don't need more Avengers waves. There are lot of unmade costumes and characters from the 60's-90's Avengers teams that I'd love to see, and a lot of characters that I think should get redos. But any wave we get is going to have to be more of a hodgepodge of B-list Avengers from various roster than a complete team.

I'm a big fan of the 70's-80's X-Men, but most of my wants from that era are individual new costumes (classic Marvel Girl, BoM Rogue, Sprite Kitty Pryde) or supporting characters.

[stegron01]

Yeah I hear what you are saying BD.  It is easier to pick out precise Xmen teams with certain uniforms.  However, there are several distinguishable avengers teams, eg they could do cap's quirky quartet vs the original masters of evil or they could focus more on storylines like the invasion of the mansion.  But yes, to get lots of new characters it does need to be a bit more of a hodgepodge, and most of wave 69 did a pretty good job of that.  However, it seems that is not the best formula to drive sales.

Edited May 5, 2017 by stegron01

[NerdyTrev]

How about an X-Men vs. Avengers wave based off of that 4 issue limited series from the 80's?

Captain America / Magneto (purple X-Men suit)

Doctor Druid / Mohawk Storm redo (perhaps with an actual jacket )

Captain Marvel / Wolverine (I know we just got what is probably the best Brown Wolverine we have but........)

She-Hulk / Rogue 

 

Two good looking teams here, plus based off of a pretty memorable story IMHO. Only thing missing is the Russian Super soldiers. Perhaps a Box Set:

Vanguard, Darkstar, Ursa Major, Titanium Man

 

[BuffaloDelorean]

Kooky Quartet vs. Masters of Evil, Under Siege, and X-Men vs. Avengers waves would all be fantastic.

[NerdyTrev]

We don't need the Kooky Quartet. I'd say the Under Siege Masters versus the Avengers at that time and West Coast versus Wrecking Crew

Under Siege:

Bearded Thor / Goliath

Hercules / Moonstone

Wasp / Grey Gargoyle

Namor / Tiger Shark

 

West Coast v Wrecking Crew:

Hawkeye (can't have it without him) / Wrecker

U.S. Agent / Thunderball

Mockingbird / Piledriver

War Machine / Bulldozer

 

[BuffaloDelorean]

3 hours ago, NerdyTrev said:

We don't need the Kooky Quartet. I'd say the Under Siege Masters versus the Avengers at that time and West Coast versus Wrecking Crew

Under Siege:

Bearded Thor / Goliath

Hercules / Moonstone

Wasp / Grey Gargoyle

Namor / Tiger Shark

 

West Coast v Wrecking Crew:

Hawkeye (can't have it without him) / Wrecker

U.S. Agent / Thunderball

Mockingbird / Piledriver

War Machine / Bulldozer

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that we don't really need the Quartet as a team, since half of them are in GH2. Still, though, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in their original costumes are pretty high in my minimate wants list.

That Under Siege wave would be pretty amazing, close to an ideal wave for me. The only thing that bothers me a bit is the lack of Captain Marvel, especially since it could be her energy form so it wouldn't be a straight redo. Still, she wouldn't fit without taking out another just as valid character.

A WCA vs. Wrecking Crew wave would be great too, but if there are only going to be four WCA members I'd go with Hawkeye, Mockingbird, redo Silver Centurion Iron Man, and redo or ionic Wonder Man. That way, by putting them with Tigra, you'd have the full roster from the start of their ongoing series all at once.

Edited May 6, 2017 by BuffaloDelorean