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Wave 65 The Unknown Wave


Zak Katz

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They've said in the past that even with an A-Lister in the two pack they can't make "just anybody," although that seems to be an "eye of the beholder" situation.

The moment the Howard/Dazzler 2-pack became a reality is the moment that argument got thrown out the window IMO.

I'll admit that Howard the Duck definitely came out of left field, but this is far from the first time that DST made a Minimate of an unexpected and/or obscure character.

That being said, I predict a Secret Wars or All New, All Different wave.

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While I still think GotG is a strong contender for this wave, I couldn't help but generate another idea (full disclosure, it's totally influenced by my new, badass Scarlet Spider): A CLONE SAGA WAVE. Check it!

Web of Death Spider-Man / White business suit Dr. Ock

Web of Life Scarlet Spider / Battle Damaged Venom

Kaine / Jackal

Peter Parker Clone / Cloning Tank

Yeah, that last one is a bit weird, but I think it'd be just crazy enough to work. And plus, imagine building your own massive army of half naked Peter Parker clones.

You know, that or an ANAD Marvel wave with Spidey (both). Iron Man, Hulk, Wolvie-23, Ms. Marvel, etc.

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I generally try to stay out of speculation threads. Especially when they get into intense discussions of racial stereotyping.

I'm pretty sure the wave will be on display at NYCC. Definitely at the panel. Might be in Previews shortly after that! Release early next year.

I hope people like it, it has at least three all-new, fan-requested characters out of seven, and the other looks are all pretty cool. No real army-builder, but a few of the figures have multiple looks, including the one that is in both of the two variant packs.

The wave is actually a bit of a mishmash, in that it features Secret Wars AND Axis looks. AND Secret Invasion. AND one other crossover.

And I said it once, but I'll say it again. Howard the Duck is NOT obscure. He's been in two Marvel movies -- a cameo in one of the most popular ever, and a starring role in the first one ever made! And Dazzler was in a video game AND a top-selling 1990s X-Men comic. Together, they're both close enough to A-List to get the job done.

Edited by DSTZach
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I generally try to stay out of speculation threads. Especially when they get into intense discussions of racial stereotyping.

I'm pretty sure the wave will be on display at NYCC. Definitely at the panel. Might be in Previews shortly after that! Release early next year.

I hope people like it, it has a few fan-requested figures in it, and three new characters out of seven. No real army-builder, but a few different figures with multiple looks, including one that is in the two variant packs.

The wave is actually a bit of a mishmash, in that it features Secret Wars AND Axis looks. AND Secret Invasion. AND one other crossover.

And I said it once, but I'll say it again. Howard the Duck is NOT obscure. He's been in two Marvel movies -- a cameo in one of the most popular ever, and a starring role in the first one ever made! And Dazzler was in a video game AND a top-selling 1990s X-Men comic. Together, they're both close enough to A-List to get the job done.

Well, that was pretty tame considering that other times discussion moved towards Wallgreens' Mini Mates...

WOO!

Double Woo! It's been a while since we got an "army-builder".

Well, you just made my day! Secret Invasion I have no clue, but I'm betting we'll see someone from Magneto's team from AXIS, and maybe some Illuminati folks. Hmm, could Black Swan be the "army builder"? There are countless of them and with a few hairpieces or faces you can build a decent army of Doom worshippers. Maybe God Doom is included, so with a second pair of hands you can get both the FF version. This wave sure has potential.

On that I'll have to (mostly) disagree. Howard's a cult icon, I'll give you that. His movie is one of the worst ever made (Fant4stic still managed to be worse though) so that made him something of an internet legend. And yes, after his cameo he did see a major surge in popularity. But he is in no way "A-List". C, B- maybe. But what I consider "A-List" are characters my mum and dad know. Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Captain America, Iron Man, Wolverine, etc, etc... As for Dazzler, meh. The comic and arcade game were hits, but I don't think anyone said "oh boy, Dazzler's in this title!". Most people just bought the "X-Men featuring Wolverine" book.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but Ghost Rider had 2 movies, who did pretty good at the BO, his own video game and has appeared in: Spider-Man/Venom: Separation Anxiety, MUA, UMVC3, Little Big Planet as a costume, all phone apps, , Marvel Super Hero Squad, Lego Marvel and is playable in Marvel's current hit MMORPG, Marvel Heroes. Not counting his comics, toys, statues and his standing as a pop culture icon. Yet we always hear how he isn't "A-List enough" to be remade. Sure, he's no Spider-Man, but the "phrase" "Ghost Rider isn't A-List but Dazzler is" just doesn't sound right to me.

Edited by Kostisfire
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Let's see. First up, the clues:

1)Looks form Secret Wars, AXIS, Secret Invasion and 1 other Crossover.

2)Three new characters out of 7.

3)A few fan-requested characters.

4)No real army builder, but a few characters have Alt. looks.

Major Players from those story-lines:

1) Secret Wars: The Illuminati (Namor, Panther, Strange), God Doom, Black Swan(s), The Cabal (Maker, Maximus, Black Order), Molecule Man

2) AXIS: Enchantress, Jack O'Lantern, Magneto, Loki, Deadpool, Doctor Voodoo

3) Secret Invasion: Spider-Woman, Hank Pym (maybe give us his post SI Wasp costume?)

4) The next one, maybe Original Sin? The Watcher perhaps?

Guesses:

Honestly, I don't know. I'm thinking Enchantress, could be one of the 3 new characters, but who knows? We'll see in a little while it seems.



I don't want to sound like a broken record...

Really?

Well, even broken clocks are right twice a day...Or something, I mean, there a lot of things that can be broken and still work. Phone Screens for example... All joking aside, my point still stands. I might be irritating, "weird", annoying and "confusing", but I think I can separate an A-lister from a C one. If I was a lunatic (trust me, I've been close to some, and they mostly prefer to stab things than ramble), I'd have used Moon Knight to make my point, but that'd have been too far fetched, even for me.

Edited by Kostisfire
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I generally try to stay out of speculation threads. Especially when they get into intense discussions of racial stereotyping.

I'm pretty sure the wave will be on display at NYCC. Definitely at the panel. Might be in Previews shortly after that! Release early next year.

I hope people like it, it has at least three all-new, fan-requested characters out of seven, and the other looks are all pretty cool. No real army-builder, but a few of the figures have multiple looks, including the one that is in both of the two variant packs.

The wave is actually a bit of a mishmash, in that it features Secret Wars AND Axis looks. AND Secret Invasion. AND one other crossover.

And I said it once, but I'll say it again. Howard the Duck is NOT obscure. He's been in two Marvel movies -- a cameo in one of the most popular ever, and a starring role in the first one ever made! And Dazzler was in a video game AND a top-selling 1990s X-Men comic. Together, they're both close enough to A-List to get the job done.

They're kind of obscure. How many non-comic readers would recognize Howard or Dazzler? On the other hand, even most people who have never read a comic book before will easily recognize someone like, say, Batman or Spider-Man. Even some comic readers might not be familiar with Howard or Dazzler. Granted, they're not as obscure as someone like Looter/Meteor Man, Man Mountain Marko, or Plantman, but they're not exactly household names, either.

As for Howard's movie appearances...yes, Guardians of the Galaxy was deservedly extremely popular and no doubt gave him a lot of recognition, but I don't think that many people remember (or want to remember) his feature film. tongue.png

But then again, how many non-comic readers do you think saw GotG and recognized Howard? Not very many.

Edited by MinnesotaIceman
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I generally try to stay out of speculation threads. Especially when they get into intense discussions of racial stereotyping.

I'm pretty sure the wave will be on display at NYCC. Definitely at the panel. Might be in Previews shortly after that! Release early next year.

I hope people like it, it has a few fan-requested figures in it, and three new characters out of seven. No real army-builder, but a few different figures with multiple looks, including one that is in the two variant packs.

The wave is actually a bit of a mishmash, in that it features Secret Wars AND Axis looks. AND Secret Invasion. AND one other crossover.

And I said it once, but I'll say it again. Howard the Duck is NOT obscure. He's been in two Marvel movies -- a cameo in one of the most popular ever, and a starring role in the first one ever made! And Dazzler was in a video game AND a top-selling 1990s X-Men comic. Together, they're both close enough to A-List to get the job done.

Well, that was pretty tame considering that other times discussion moved towards Wallgreens' Mini Mates...

WOO!

Double Woo! It's been a while since we got an "army-builder".

Well, you just made my day! Secret Invasion I have no clue, but I'm betting we'll see someone from Magneto's team from AXIS, and maybe some Illuminati folks. Hmm, could Black Swan be the "army builder"? There are countless of them and with a few hairpieces or faces you can build a decent army of Doom worshippers. Maybe God Doom is included, so with a second pair of hands you can get both the FF version. This wave sure has potential.

On that I'll have to (mostly) disagree. Howard's a cult icon, I'll give you that. His movie is one of the worst ever made (Fant4stic still managed to be worse though) so that made him something of an internet legend. And yes, after his cameo he did see a major surge in popularity. But he is in no way "A-List". C, B- maybe. But what I consider "A-List" are characters my mum and dad know. Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Captain America, Iron Man, Wolverine, etc, etc... As for Dazzler, meh. The comic and arcade game were hits, but I don't think anyone said "oh boy, Dazzler's in this title!". Most people just bought the "X-Men featuring Wolverine" book.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but Ghost Rider had 2 movies, who did pretty good at the BO, his own video game and has appeared in: Spider-Man/Venom: Separation Anxiety, MUA, UMVC3, Little Big Planet as a costume, all phone apps, , Marvel Super Hero Squad, Lego Marvel and is playable in Marvel's current hit MMORPG, Marvel Heroes. Not counting his comics, toys, statues and his standing as a pop culture icon. Yet we always hear how he isn't "A-List enough" to be remade. Sure, he's no Spider-Man, but the "phrase" "Ghost Rider isn't A-List but Dazzler is" just doesn't sound right to me.

1. I said Howard and Dazzler were "close enough to A-List." Mainly I said Howard was not obscure, and I mean it. He was in a movie many people are aware of; he was the focus of multiple lawsuits and creator controversies that many comic fans know; he was recently on the cover of every marvel comic one month; he has had a solo title for like 40 years; and he had a highly discussed cameo in GOTG.

2. I also never said that people read X-Men or played X-Men in the arcade specifically because of Dazzler. BUT the people who read X-Men were regularly treated to Dazzler stories and even Dazzler covers, and she was on a poster or two, and if you don't think Marc Silvestri drew a great Dazzler, I have to disagree. AND if you played X-Men with more than 3 or 5 people, someone had to play Dazzler.

3. If I ever said Ghost Rider was NOT A-List, I misspoke, but I don't know that I did. Of course he's A-list. Two movies, solo title for 40 years, appropriation by skater/biker culture, more creator controversies... oh, and we've made FIVE of him. We've never made Howard. And Dazzler has two distinctively different costumes, while Ghost Rider has looked more or less the same in all of his major incarnations.

Howard and Dazzler are "close enough to A-list to get the job done" but we keep getting characters like Iron Man and Hulk packaged together? Make whatever you want but don't treat us like idiots.

Your comparison is confusing. Are you saying that we have always said that we need to pack two A-listers together, and this contradicts that? We have NEVER said that we needed two A-list characters in every package (although those have the most potential sales). Further, we've never even said that a set needed ONE A-List character, although it certainly helps sell-through. (Boomer/Rictor and Magma/Mirage were short-packs, other minor characters have come with army-builders.) If a Hulk ever came with an Iron Man, it may be because they were teammates, or because they fight sometimes. Or we wanted that set to do well at Toys "R" Us. But it wasn't some kind of inviolate rule I just counteracted.

The only reason I defended Howard/Dazzler was because people were saying they were too obscure to make sense, and that they came out of nowhere. But I think they're far more iconic than guys like Boomer and Rictor, and far more important, both now and in the grand history of the Marvel U., than, say, Ghost Rider or Moon Knight. (In my opinion.) And they're well-known enough to stand alongside many A-list characters.

Next time, I'll just say, "Yeah, they're totally minor characters. What were we thinking?" biggrin.png

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I generally try to stay out of speculation threads. Especially when they get into intense discussions of racial stereotyping.

I'm pretty sure the wave will be on display at NYCC. Definitely at the panel. Might be in Previews shortly after that! Release early next year.

I hope people like it, it has at least three all-new, fan-requested characters out of seven, and the other looks are all pretty cool. No real army-builder, but a few of the figures have multiple looks, including the one that is in both of the two variant packs.

The wave is actually a bit of a mishmash, in that it features Secret Wars AND Axis looks. AND Secret Invasion. AND one other crossover.

And I said it once, but I'll say it again. Howard the Duck is NOT obscure. He's been in two Marvel movies -- a cameo in one of the most popular ever, and a starring role in the first one ever made! And Dazzler was in a video game AND a top-selling 1990s X-Men comic. Together, they're both close enough to A-List to get the job done.

They're kind of obscure. How many non-comic readers would recognize Howard or Dazzler? On the other hand, even most people who have never read a comic book before will easily recognize someone like, say, Batman or Spider-Man. Even some comic readers might not be familiar with Howard or Dazzler. Granted, they're not as obscure as someone like Looter/Meteor Man, Man Mountain Marko, or Plantman, but they're not exactly household names, either.

As for Howard's movie appearances...yes, Guardians of the Galaxy was deservedly extremely popular and no doubt gave him a lot of recognition, but I don't think that many people remember (or want to remember) his feature film. tongue.png

But then again, how many non-comic readers do you think saw GotG and recognized Howard? Not very many.

Yeah, they're totally minor characters. What were we thinking?

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People say "obscure" like it's a bad thing.

I collect lines like this because they offer obscure characters. I love to add such characters to my collection.

Bring on Man-Thing.

Damn right. If every set of Minimates from here on out was a new, never before made "obscure" character it would suit me just fine.

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I generally try to stay out of speculation threads. Especially when they get into intense discussions of racial stereotyping.

I'm pretty sure the wave will be on display at NYCC. Definitely at the panel. Might be in Previews shortly after that! Release early next year.

I hope people like it, it has a few fan-requested figures in it, and three new characters out of seven. No real army-builder, but a few different figures with multiple looks, including one that is in the two variant packs.

The wave is actually a bit of a mishmash, in that it features Secret Wars AND Axis looks. AND Secret Invasion. AND one other crossover.

And I said it once, but I'll say it again. Howard the Duck is NOT obscure. He's been in two Marvel movies -- a cameo in one of the most popular ever, and a starring role in the first one ever made! And Dazzler was in a video game AND a top-selling 1990s X-Men comic. Together, they're both close enough to A-List to get the job done.

Well, that was pretty tame considering that other times discussion moved towards Wallgreens' Mini Mates...

WOO!

Double Woo! It's been a while since we got an "army-builder".

Well, you just made my day! Secret Invasion I have no clue, but I'm betting we'll see someone from Magneto's team from AXIS, and maybe some Illuminati folks. Hmm, could Black Swan be the "army builder"? There are countless of them and with a few hairpieces or faces you can build a decent army of Doom worshippers. Maybe God Doom is included, so with a second pair of hands you can get both the FF version. This wave sure has potential.

On that I'll have to (mostly) disagree. Howard's a cult icon, I'll give you that. His movie is one of the worst ever made (Fant4stic still managed to be worse though) so that made him something of an internet legend. And yes, after his cameo he did see a major surge in popularity. But he is in no way "A-List". C, B- maybe. But what I consider "A-List" are characters my mum and dad know. Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Captain America, Iron Man, Wolverine, etc, etc... As for Dazzler, meh. The comic and arcade game were hits, but I don't think anyone said "oh boy, Dazzler's in this title!". Most people just bought the "X-Men featuring Wolverine" book.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but Ghost Rider had 2 movies, who did pretty good at the BO, his own video game and has appeared in: Spider-Man/Venom: Separation Anxiety, MUA, UMVC3, Little Big Planet as a costume, all phone apps, , Marvel Super Hero Squad, Lego Marvel and is playable in Marvel's current hit MMORPG, Marvel Heroes. Not counting his comics, toys, statues and his standing as a pop culture icon. Yet we always hear how he isn't "A-List enough" to be remade. Sure, he's no Spider-Man, but the "phrase" "Ghost Rider isn't A-List but Dazzler is" just doesn't sound right to me.

1. I said Howard and Dazzler were "close enough to A-List." Mainly I said Howard was not obscure, and I mean it. He was in a movie many people are aware of; he was the focus of multiple lawsuits and creator controversies that many comic fans know; he was recently on the cover of every marvel comic one month; he has had a solo title for like 40 years; and he had a highly discussed cameo in GOTG.

2. I also never said that people read X-Men or played X-Men in the arcade specifically because of Dazzler. BUT the people who read X-Men were regularly treated to Dazzler stories and even Dazzler covers, and she was on a poster or two, and if you don't think Marc Silvestri drew a great Dazzler, I have to disagree. AND if you played X-Men with more than 3 or 5 people, someone had to play Dazzler.

3. If I ever said Ghost Rider was NOT A-List, I misspoke, but I don't know that I did. Of course he's A-list. Two movies, solo title for 40 years, appropriation by skater/biker culture, more creator controversies... oh, and we've made FIVE of him. We've never made Howard. And Dazzler has two distinctively different costumes, while Ghost Rider has looked more or less the same in all of his major incarnations.

Howard and Dazzler are "close enough to A-list to get the job done" but we keep getting characters like Iron Man and Hulk packaged together? Make whatever you want but don't treat us like idiots.

Your comparison is confusing. Are you saying that we have always said that we need to pack two A-listers together, and this contradicts that? We have NEVER said that we needed two A-list characters in every package (although those have the most potential sales). Further, we've never even said that a set needed ONE A-List character, although it certainly helps sell-through. (Boomer/Rictor and Magma/Mirage were short-packs, other minor characters have come with army-builders.) If a Hulk ever came with an Iron Man, it may be because they were teammates, or because they fight sometimes. Or we wanted that set to do well at Toys "R" Us. But it wasn't some kind of inviolate rule I just counteracted.

The only reason I defended Howard/Dazzler was because people were saying they were too obscure to make sense, and that they came out of nowhere. But I think they're far more iconic than guys like Boomer and Rictor, and far more important, both now and in the grand history of the Marvel U., than, say, Ghost Rider or Moon Knight. (In my opinion.) And they're well-known enough to stand alongside many A-list characters.

Next time, I'll just say, "Yeah, they're totally minor characters. What were we thinking?" biggrin.png

1) I agree on that, Howard is, like I said, a cult Icon, though I just don't see him as A-List. For me, A-Listers are Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, etc. I wouldnt put Ghost Rider or Punisher, Blade or Daredevil in that category, just the big guns. It realy depends on your definition of A-List, which varies from person to person.

2) That is true, but I don't think a lot of folks went out of the arcade/book thinking of Dazzler. I wasn't there then though, so I can't really judge the situation, but I just think that Dazzler was to those books then what most Avengers are now. A back-ground character that most people don't really notice. Yeah, she was cool and all, she was supposed to become a bigger star, but as it stands, she's, IMHO, a "classic" character most people just remember fondly.

3) I was referring to Chuck's comments mostly, but I guess he's still "afraid"/dissapointed from 15. As for the costumes, well, sure, he was worn the same thing, but the previous figs do not hold up to today's standards. Simplistic fire pieces, no sculpted details for the most part, they're really vanillia when compared to, say, the new FalCap. By putting out a new Ghost Rider with a few spare pieces, you essentially create both the classic and modern Ketch and Blaze versions. Oh well, I guess I've got to wait for the inevitable Supernatural wave after Doctor Strange. It's going to happen, right?! Right?!!?!

All in all, I'm not complaining. I want a Howard and Dazzler, while I don't like her, doesn't affect me. I certainly don't think that Moon Knight, or Ghost Rider are characters you can just throw in an assortment and be certain that they'll sell. It's just that I think that by putting out a Howard/Dazzler 2-pack, you have to raise the chances of a new Ghost Rider/Moon Knight to 30 or 40 % somewhere down the line. Either way, 64 is a great wave and 65's sounding pretty bloody awesome.

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I, for one, love the odd character pairings that we used to get with Lockjaw/Betsy Braddock, Silver Surfer/Swordsman, etc. Howard/Dazzler definitely falls in that category and hopefully leads to many others down the road.

Wave 65 speculation!

Some "New Fan Requested" Characters:

- Jack O'Lantern could definitely be a candidate, especially with the pumpkin head reuse from RGB/NBX.

- Kamala Khan

- Citizen V

- Enchantress

Potential noteable redos:

- God Doom

- Dr Strange w/ axe

- Black suit Daredevil

- Spider-Woman

- Black Panther

- Ant-Man

Edited by youbastards
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I, for one, love the odd character pairings that we used to get with Lockjaw/Betsy Braddock, Silver Surfer/Swordsman, etc. Howard/Dazzler definitely falls in that category and hopefully leads to many others down the road.

Wave 65 speculation!

Some "New Fan Requested" Characters:

- Jack O'Lantern could definitely be a candidate, especially with the pumpkin head reuse from RGB/NBX.

- Kamala Khan

- Citizen V

- Enchantress

Potential noteable redos:

- God Doom

- Dr Strange w/ axe

- Black suit Daredevil

- Spider-Woman

- Black Panther

- Ant-Man

If we got a Jack O'Lantern, I'd have my "Best Mate of 2016" already...

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