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Wave 65 The Unknown Wave


Zak Katz

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Your comparison is confusing. Are you saying that we have always said that we need to pack two A-listers together, and this contradicts that? We have NEVER said that we needed two A-list characters in every package (although those have the most potential sales). Further, we've never even said that a set needed ONE A-List character, although it certainly helps sell-through. (Boomer/Rictor and Magma/Mirage were short-packs, other minor characters have come with army-builders.) If a Hulk ever came with an Iron Man, it may be because they were teammates, or because they fight sometimes. Or we wanted that set to do well at Toys "R" Us. But it wasn't some kind of inviolate rule I just counteracted.

Since DST has shifted away from making more obscure characters it's been fairly consistently presented to us, here and in Ask DST, that popularity is very important when selecting characters for a wave. I know some fan favorites from around here have been dismissed pretty strongly in Ask DST responses for that reason. So, while I'm sure DST doesn't have many inviolate rules, there's a very strong impression that the process works a certain way about 90% of the time, and when it doesn't there will be some questions. Personally, I think the answer is usually that someone at DST likes a certain character or characters so they get to make the cut. That's fine, even if I disagree with the choices, but it rankles a bit to see it suggested that these not A-list characters are actually popular but those other ones just can't get made.

And Hulk's been paired with Iron Man in comic waves three times, four if you count Mecha Hulk and Rescue.

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Axis figures - I'd be *very* surprised is we didn't end up seeing a Zenpool out of this. I know it was only a brief look, but Deadpool had proven to be a sales winner for DST. This seems as good an excuse for a variant as any. If they did pair him with Enchantress, i'd be more than happy smile.png

As for Secret Wars.... i'm hoping to see more AoA. Queue the collective groan. Seriously though - AoA Shadowcat has been featured very heavily in the event. I think a Shadowcat Colossus 2-pack would be awesome (although, she'd more likely be paired with Starlord).

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Axis figures - I'd be *very* surprised is we didn't end up seeing a Zenpool out of this. I know it was only a brief look, but Deadpool had proven to be a sales winner for DST. This seems as good an excuse for a variant as any. If they did pair him with Enchantress, i'd be more than happy smile.png

As for Secret Wars.... i'm hoping to see more AoA. Queue the collective groan. Seriously though - AoA Shadowcat has been featured very heavily in the event. I think a Shadowcat Colossus 2-pack would be awesome (although, she'd more likely be paired with Starlord).

Personally, I'd love more AoA stuff, but I'm guessing we'll see people from the "core cast". Maximus, God Doom, T'Challa, Sherif Strange, people like that.

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Axis figures - I'd be *very* surprised is we didn't end up seeing a Zenpool out of this. I know it was only a brief look, but Deadpool had proven to be a sales winner for DST. This seems as good an excuse for a variant as any. If they did pair him with Enchantress, i'd be more than happy smile.png

As for Secret Wars.... i'm hoping to see more AoA. Queue the collective groan. Seriously though - AoA Shadowcat has been featured very heavily in the event. I think a Shadowcat Colossus 2-pack would be awesome (although, she'd more likely be paired with Starlord).

AoA Shadowcat would be neat.

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Your comparison is confusing. Are you saying that we have always said that we need to pack two A-listers together, and this contradicts that? We have NEVER said that we needed two A-list characters in every package (although those have the most potential sales). Further, we've never even said that a set needed ONE A-List character, although it certainly helps sell-through. (Boomer/Rictor and Magma/Mirage were short-packs, other minor characters have come with army-builders.) If a Hulk ever came with an Iron Man, it may be because they were teammates, or because they fight sometimes. Or we wanted that set to do well at Toys "R" Us. But it wasn't some kind of inviolate rule I just counteracted.

Since DST has shifted away from making more obscure characters it's been fairly consistently presented to us, here and in Ask DST, that popularity is very important when selecting characters for a wave. I know some fan favorites from around here have been dismissed pretty strongly in Ask DST responses for that reason. So, while I'm sure DST doesn't have many inviolate rules, there's a very strong impression that the process works a certain way about 90% of the time, and when it doesn't there will be some questions. Personally, I think the answer is usually that someone at DST likes a certain character or characters so they get to make the cut. That's fine, even if I disagree with the choices, but it rankles a bit to see it suggested that these not A-list characters are actually popular but those other ones just can't get made.

And Hulk's been paired with Iron Man in comic waves three times, four if you count Mecha Hulk and Rescue.

So you're just disappointed that we made a new, classic, Marvel character that you don't like, and a new, classic costume for a Marvel character that you don't like. Nothing to do with Iron Man and Hulk at all, really. It's just that these two are popular with others, and not you specifically.

Unfortunately, you can't please everyone. I guess I was just surprised that people seemed to be questioning these figures at all, given that they are undeniably classic characters. Saying they came out of nowhere ignores 40 years of stories, and numerous obscure characters we've made in the past. I just thought they would be more welcomed and less questioned. But I guess a Toad/Classic Banshee or Black Knight/Classic Sunfire two-pack would not have been questioned at all.

I can't remember the last time Chuck was dismissive of a character in the Minimates Ask DST. "Never say never," sure, and "no plans at this time," of course, but I've never seen him say we wouldn't make someone, or that they were unlikely. Not for Minimates. We put out so many a year, and stuff changes all the time.

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1) I agree on that, Howard is, like I said, a cult Icon, though I just don't see him as A-List. For me, A-Listers are Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, etc. I wouldnt put Ghost Rider or Punisher, Blade or Daredevil in that category, just the big guns. It realy depends on your definition of A-List, which varies from person to person.

2) That is true, but I don't think a lot of folks went out of the arcade/book thinking of Dazzler. I wasn't there then though, so I can't really judge the situation, but I just think that Dazzler was to those books then what most Avengers are now. A back-ground character that most people don't really notice. Yeah, she was cool and all, she was supposed to become a bigger star, but as it stands, she's, IMHO, a "classic" character most people just remember fondly.

3) I was referring to Chuck's comments mostly, but I guess he's still "afraid"/dissapointed from 15. As for the costumes, well, sure, he was worn the same thing, but the previous figs do not hold up to today's standards. Simplistic fire pieces, no sculpted details for the most part, they're really vanillia when compared to, say, the new FalCap. By putting out a new Ghost Rider with a few spare pieces, you essentially create both the classic and modern Ketch and Blaze versions. Oh well, I guess I've got to wait for the inevitable Supernatural wave after Doctor Strange. It's going to happen, right?! Right?!!?!

All in all, I'm not complaining. I want a Howard and Dazzler, while I don't like her, doesn't affect me. I certainly don't think that Moon Knight, or Ghost Rider are characters you can just throw in an assortment and be certain that they'll sell. It's just that I think that by putting out a Howard/Dazzler 2-pack, you have to raise the chances of a new Ghost Rider/Moon Knight to 30 or 40 % somewhere down the line. Either way, 64 is a great wave and 65's sounding pretty bloody awesome.

1. No, Howard the Duck is not Batman. But if you want to name the Marvel superheroes that are Batman level, you'd have to stop at two, which is probably Spider-Man and Hulk. MAYBE Iron Man now. But the number of superheroes a non-comic-reader can name is probably under 20. Maybe under 10. And only half of those are Marvel. So if you define the A-List that way, EVERYBODY is B-List.

2. I know there are plenty of MM collectors here your age or younger, but age is certainly a factor here, given that this is Dazzler's 1970s outfit, and that her key X-Men run was in the late 1980s/early 1990s. That said, I don't know how you can continue to say she's "just a classic character" when she recently had an important run in Uncanny X-Men, as an Agent of SHIELD and a central plot element. Plus, she wore this as a lead in A-Force, although her costume will change in the All-New, All-Different book. (All of this also applies somewhat to Howard the Duck.)

And I don't know how popular the X-Men game was in Greece in its day, or even later on, but I'm sure Dazzler made a fairly small impact on the population. The Howard the Duck movie may have been banned there, for all I know. So it's entirely possible this set will do poorly in Greece, but 90% of our Marvel sets are sold in the U.S. and Canada, not counting BHM's mass exports, just due to licensing restrictions. So that is the audience we need to think about.

3. Chuck is not scared of Series 15. That was a lifetime ago. And Ghost Rider has been embroiled in a lawsuit on and off since then -- it may have even played a factor in 15, I have no idea. So he was off the table for a while. Not sure another supernatural set is in the works, but we'll see. 4-packs cost more to produce than 2-packs, comparative to pricing. The price will be going up a little to compensate.

I think Moon Knight and Ghost Rider could absolutely sell in a wave -- at specialty or TRU -- we just need to find the right wave or set. We've been trying to theme our waves, because it's something retailers can look at and know what it is. They know what "Axis," and "Secret Wars" and "X-Men" are, but finding the right assortment for a bunch of independent operatives is a little trickier. I do not believe either played a big part in Secret Wars. Or Series 65's theme. (It has a theme.)

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A page or so back I saw Zach say something that sounded like ghost rider was less important than Howard the duck and dazzler and I had a small heart attack.

Now that I'm out of the ICU, what's this ghost rider lawsuit? I'll Google it of course but I'm surprised I hadn't heard about it.

Also 4 packs cost more to produce? That's interesting. Any reason why?

Lots of insightful info here. I like most of it, just dont send me back to the hospital.

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1) I agree on that, Howard is, like I said, a cult Icon, though I just don't see him as A-List. For me, A-Listers are Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, etc. I wouldnt put Ghost Rider or Punisher, Blade or Daredevil in that category, just the big guns. It realy depends on your definition of A-List, which varies from person to person.

2) That is true, but I don't think a lot of folks went out of the arcade/book thinking of Dazzler. I wasn't there then though, so I can't really judge the situation, but I just think that Dazzler was to those books then what most Avengers are now. A back-ground character that most people don't really notice. Yeah, she was cool and all, she was supposed to become a bigger star, but as it stands, she's, IMHO, a "classic" character most people just remember fondly.

3) I was referring to Chuck's comments mostly, but I guess he's still "afraid"/dissapointed from 15. As for the costumes, well, sure, he was worn the same thing, but the previous figs do not hold up to today's standards. Simplistic fire pieces, no sculpted details for the most part, they're really vanillia when compared to, say, the new FalCap. By putting out a new Ghost Rider with a few spare pieces, you essentially create both the classic and modern Ketch and Blaze versions. Oh well, I guess I've got to wait for the inevitable Supernatural wave after Doctor Strange. It's going to happen, right?! Right?!!?!

All in all, I'm not complaining. I want a Howard and Dazzler, while I don't like her, doesn't affect me. I certainly don't think that Moon Knight, or Ghost Rider are characters you can just throw in an assortment and be certain that they'll sell. It's just that I think that by putting out a Howard/Dazzler 2-pack, you have to raise the chances of a new Ghost Rider/Moon Knight to 30 or 40 % somewhere down the line. Either way, 64 is a great wave and 65's sounding pretty bloody awesome.

1. No, Howard the Duck is not Batman. But if you want to name the Marvel superheroes that are Batman level, you'd have to stop at two, which is probably Spider-Man and Hulk. MAYBE Iron Man now. But the number of superheroes a non-comic-reader can name is probably under 20. Maybe under 10. And only half of those are Marvel. So if you define the A-List that way, EVERYBODY is B-List.

2. I know there are plenty of MM collectors here your age or younger, but age is certainly a factor here, given that this is Dazzler's 1970s outfit, and that her key X-Men run was in the late 1980s/early 1990s. That said, I don't know how you can continue to say she's "just a classic character" when she recently had an important run in Uncanny X-Men, as an Agent of SHIELD and a central plot element. Plus, she wore this as a lead in A-Force, although her costume will change in the All-New, All-Different book. (All of this also applies somewhat to Howard the Duck.)

And I don't know how popular the X-Men game was in Greece in its day, or even later on, but I'm sure Dazzler made a fairly small impact on the population. The Howard the Duck movie may have been banned there, for all I know. So it's entirely possible this set will do poorly in Greece, but 90% of our Marvel sets are sold in the U.S. and Canada, not counting BHM's mass exports, just due to licensing restrictions. So that is the audience we need to think about.

3. Chuck is not scared of Series 15. That was a lifetime ago. And Ghost Rider has been embroiled in a lawsuit on and off since then -- it may have even played a factor in 15, I have no idea. So he was off the table for a while. Not sure another supernatural set is in the works, but we'll see. 4-packs cost more to produce than 2-packs, comparative to pricing. The price will be going up a little to compensate.

I think Moon Knight and Ghost Rider could absolutely sell in a wave -- at specialty or TRU -- we just need to find the right wave or set. We've been trying to theme our waves, because it's something retailers can look at and know what it is. They know what "Axis," and "Secret Wars" and "X-Men" are, but finding the right assortment for a bunch of independent operatives is a little trickier. I do not believe either played a big part in Secret Wars. Or Series 65's theme. (It has a theme.)

1)It might be a bit unfair, but yeah, that's how I classify them. Spider-Man, Iron Man, Batman, etc are A-List. Deadpool, Daredevil, Punisher, Ghost Rider, etc are B-list. Howard, Elektra, etc are C-List. Moon Knight is somewhere between C- and D list. As I said, it's a bit unfair to categorize them as such, but that's how I see them,

2)I've been doing a lot of back reading so I am familiar with the importance of Disco Dazzler. She's a classic character, I'm not debating that. She's iconic and does deserve a mate, this costume especially. But I just don't think that she's a "Big Name" is all. Somewhere between B is where I'd put her, due to the plans Marvel had to turn her into a real-life pop-star. She's kinda like an urban legend if you will. As for her current role, I was pulling Bendis' UXM and it was minimal. She appeared only for a few panels every 3 issues or so. Her going "dark" was advertised as a big change, but all we got was a comment from Beast in the whole issue.

If I'm being honest, I doubt there were any such arcades here. Heck, I doubt you could find comics in shops. The first (and one of the only three) comic shop opened about 6 or 7 years ago. I've met, maybe 2 or 3 people that read comics and that's online. Most folks don't know Daredevil or Punisher, but they do know Ghost Rider, Deadpool and, I'm not joking, Spawn. But the biggest "stars" here are Obelix & Asterix, Lucky Luke, Arkas (a series of satirical, crude and filled with black humor comics-they're worth a shot, they're usually pretty damn good). So yeah, "A-List" varies from place to place, so that's why I'm so "strict" with my categorization.

3)Yeah, those few years of legal battles were pretty tough. No product was allowed at all if I'm not mistaken. Still, I'm not faulting anyone, DST is out to make money, not give stuff away. It's just that when you have a few "favorites" you want them, and you want them now, dammit! To hell with waiting and all that!

As for another SPN set, I was under the impression that Strange Tales did pretty good. I think that with Doc Strange coming up next year, an accompanying comic themed wave r box-set would be pretty neat. The SPN corner has really not been touched at all, the main reason being that most SPN characters are a bit less than popular. But Strange is advertised as the beggining of a new era, so we'll see.

Moon Knight has had only a handful of brief appearances during SW, so that's nothing to write about. Ghost Rider got a mini though, titled Ghost Racers and it featured all GRs taking part in Arcade's spoff of Death Race. It's just that the MK book was so critically aclaimed that I thought that it was the only "chance" we had to see him, in an accompanying All-New Marvel wave. Neither he nor Ghost Rider had any place in 64, I'm just saying that, in case an ANAD wave happens, I'd like to see both of them in there. And Black Knight. And Man-Baun Hercules. And Black Panther. And Hyperion. And...

Interesting about 65. It has a theme but it's a mix of different events. I'd say ANAD based on the new costumes, but that'd be too early. They were shown about 2 months ago. Still, it sounds as if it's going to be fantastic so I literall cain't wait! Here's hoping we see Jack O'Lantern and Enchantress like others speculated.

A page or so back I saw Zach say something that sounded like ghost rider was less important than Howard the duck and dazzler and I had a small heart attack.

Now that I'm out of the ICU, what's this ghost rider lawsuit? I'll Google it of course but I'm surprised I hadn't heard about it.

Also 4 packs cost more to produce? That's interesting. Any reason why?

Lots of insightful info here. I like most of it, just dont send me back to the hospital.

GR's creator demanded that he gets full ownership of the character. Marvel won in the end, but they were a bad few years for GR. I think it was settled right when Wave 50 was released with Zadkiel-Powered Danny.

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It's always cute when these creators think they're going to somehow get the rights to these characters. Should Marvel compensate them for the longstanding value their creation had? Absolutely. But don't pretend you didn't know what the deal was when you created this character.

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It's always cute when these creators think they're going to somehow get the rights to these characters. Should Marvel compensate them for the longstanding value their creation had? Absolutely. But don't pretend you didn't know what the deal was when you created this character.

Well, it is hard seeing a character you created get so big, while you get nothing out of it, but a contract's a contract. It's tough, but hey, that's life.

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Secret Invasion, you say?

Wasp.

We haven't had a new Wasp Minimate since that Avengers box set from way back when, have we?

No. No we have not. Oddly enough. She could use another figure couldn't she?

Definitely. I mean, the Wasp we have now is a great figure, but she's had so many different looks over the years, and it's been such a long time since that box set came out (at least 5 years, IIRC), that a new Wasp would definitely be welcome.

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She has been seriously left behind in all of the recent avengers waves.

I'm assuming that this is mostly because she hasn't featured in the MCU until now.

Look at the attention Hawkeye & Black Widow have received in comparison.

Hopefully her star will start to rise going forward frmo the Ant-Man movie.

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She has been seriously left behind in all of the recent avengers waves.

I'm assuming that this is mostly because she hasn't featured in the MCU until now.

Look at the attention Hawkeye & Black Widow have received in comparison.

Hopefully her star will start to rise going forward frmo the Ant-Man movie.

That and the fact that she was presumed dead for several years.

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She has been seriously left behind in all of the recent avengers waves.

I'm assuming that this is mostly because she hasn't featured in the MCU until now.

Look at the attention Hawkeye & Black Widow have received in comparison.

Hopefully her star will start to rise going forward frmo the Ant-Man movie.

Another "problem" is that she changes costumes almost constantly, being a fashion designer and all. Maybe companies just can't settle on one, considering that she's not a major character. Personally, I'm hoping for the black & gold "bodysuit" with the yellow-ish wings and pixie haircut. That was brilliant!

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