MisterPL Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Spidey's symbiote costume leaps to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobsterman Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 In what way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexion_Armando Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Symbiote appeared in one issue and was "status quo" for a while, so I wouldn't call that built up. Jessica Jones getting married and having a kid with Luke maybe? Cyclops turning more and more militant and defiant, which stems from his relationship with Emma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Spidey's off-world. His costume gets shredded. He needs new duds and happens along this amazing "fabric" that not only gives him a new look but can instantly go from street clothes to costume in a moment. It's still Peter Parker. He didn't join a team and remained independent. The costume change made sense and managed to introduce a new character along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnim zola Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'm blown away by the pregnant spiderwoman. I just don't know what to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellpop Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'm honestly fascinated by all of this hand-wringing over changes to the status quo, as there hasn't ever really been a "status quo" in comics. I can't think of a time when there haven't been shake-ups to teams, dramatic changes to characters, or "nothing will ever be the same!!!!" moments. Like, is it really that upsetting to see characters change their costumes, or are people just reading the same three or four issues from the 1960s over and over and over and over again? Can someone give an example of a well-developed, logical, and "acceptable" change to a team or character* in contrast with the apparently wildly irrational and arbitrary changes that are going on now? *Okay, I'll go ahead and cite the respective marriages of Peter and Mary Jane and Scott and Jean right now. Granted. The problem with costumes and lineups is that the changes never last for more then a few months, much less years and years. Because they come so frequently now, it just feels like change for the sake of change, as Valo put it. Often these lineups looked like they were picked by a random name generator, and the costumes from a DeviantArt contest. Why should we as readers get excited when we can bet that these books will have no lasting impact, and we'll be seeing them as curiosities in the discount bins in a few years? Honestly, as a "wait for the trade" guy, by the time I read many of these books, they will be completely dated. That's just inexcusable. Personally, I don't look much at the lineups or the costumes, but at the creators doing the books. Charles Soule and Ron Garney on Daredevil? I'll read that. Nick Spencer on Ant-Man? I'm in. James Robinson and Leonard Kirk on the Squadron? I'll check it out. Bendis on the Guardians. NOOOOOOOO WAY! Oh, and the A-#1 most needed Minimate from all these is SPIDER HAM!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Spider-Woman's gotta be having some messed up dreams. I'm picturing a thousand baby spiders skittering out and eating her. Honestly, though, when she poses so provocatively, she's bound to get knocked up sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellpop Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 DON'T YOU KNOCK MILO MANARA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobsterman Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Spidey's off-world. His costume gets shredded. He needs new duds and happens along this amazing "fabric" that not only gives him a new look but can instantly go from street clothes to costume in a moment. ` Which was undeniably the kind of "change for change's sake" sales-driven gimmick you're decrying. I don't see how a magic outer space costume machine makes any more sense than Storm getting a tough-looking mohawk to lead the Morlocks, or Jane Foster picking up Mjolnir. It's still Peter Parker. He didn't join a team and remained independent. But he got angrier and more violent – which was handled gradually, and was what I would consider reasoned character development. But then we find out he was just possessed by an alien, and he immediately turned back to the same-ol' happy-go-lucky Spidey. Which I would also consider change for change's sake – or rather, a reboot catering to the old-school guys who were tired of all the dark, violent heroes, etc and wanted "their" Spidey back. In the case of either one of those changes to the character, it showed the guy under the mask is just as mutable as the mask itself. The problem with costumes and lineups is that the changes never last for more then a few months, much less years and years. Because they come so frequently now, it just feels like change for the sake of change, as Valo put it. Often these lineups looked like they were picked by a random name generator, and the costumes from a DeviantArt contest. Why should we as readers get excited when we can bet that these books will have no lasting impact, and we'll be seeing them as curiosities in the discount bins in a few years? Honestly, as a "wait for the trade" guy, by the time I read many of these books, they will be completely dated. That's just inexcusable. I don't understand the standard by which you're judging "lasting impact" and "dated." There have always been plenty of throwaway plotlines – many more than significant, lasting changes in the way we thought about characters. Can you give an example of what you consider a lasting impact in a book? And if we're talking about teams picked by a random name generator, come on... you're an Avengers fan. When has that team not been a total hodgepodge? I'd argue it's only been recently (during the movie era) that the core team has reverted back to what it's "supposed" to be. Is this really just a problem with how comics are being marketed rather than how they're being written? Like, Marvel NOW! was presented as "everything has changed, nothing will be the same," but actually reading what happened before they put the logo on the covers and what happened after, to me stuff seemed to continue apace with very few universe-altering shakeups. Personally, I don't look much at the lineups or the costumes, but at the creators doing the books. Charles Soule and Ron Garney on Daredevil? I'll read that. Nick Spencer on Ant-Man? I'm in. James Robinson and Leonard Kirk on the Squadron? I'll check it out. Bendis on the Guardians. NOOOOOOOO WAY! Man, you really have it in for Bendis, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'm really looking forward to everything Old Man Logan. This is the big win of the reboot for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stack32 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 If you can't see why people would see this as different than you simply don't want to. From a minimate perspective I think this presents an interesting challenge. Sure, there are new costumes to make, but will they last through the development time it takes to make them? If you base a wave on a new book is it going to be cancelled months before the wave comes out? Is there enough enthusiasm for the new looks among your customer base, many of whom don't read comics month-to-month, to make them potentially successful? I've never skipped consecutive comic-based waves, but if this is what's being released in 2016 I can easily see only buying MCU 'mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbofett Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Ummmm... Here's an idea for a reboot- forget the last 15 years, and start there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Spidey's off-world. His costume gets shredded. He needs new duds and happens along this amazing "fabric" that not only gives him a new look but can instantly go from street clothes to costume in a moment. ` Which was undeniably the kind of "change for change's sake" sales-driven gimmick you're decrying. I don't see how a magic outer space costume machine makes any more sense than Storm getting a tough-looking mohawk to lead the Morlocks, or Jane Foster picking up Mjolnir. Are you suggesting that the original Secret Wars was created solely to give Spidey a new look? Because I don't recall the kind of universe-wide changes that are happening now. I don't recall a new Thor or a new Hulk or any other new costumes – aside from Doom – coming out of the series that gave us Spidey's black suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobsterman Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 If you can't see why people would see this as different than you simply don't want to. Enlighten me, please! Okay, so you take a wildly popular, fan-favorite team, one whose specific characters and relationships are integral to the stories that have been developing for years, then you blow it up and introduce six completely different characters, solely for the purpose of doing something "all-new, all-different." Remind me when they tried that and how it went? I'm hearing a lot of "I wish comics would just go back to how they were when I was a kid and loved them." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBMM1 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I started reading comics weekly during Civil War and pretty much only buy Spider-Man related titles. My problem with Marvel right now is that since I haven't kept up on the goings on of the larger universe (other than reading the occasional Wiki entry) and am totally dumbfounded by Secret Wars. I read the first 2 issues and I was completely lost. I hope that before these new titles start up, we get a couple of standalone issues that put the current universe in layman's terms for people like me who just like to keep to themselves in their own little corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsomedevil Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'm also a TPB guy all the way. I rarely even look at the monthly issues, so I don't even recognize a lot of these characters. I also sold most of my 'Mates a while back, so speaking only for the Minimates and not the comics, I'm interested in: -Man-Thing -Extraordinary X-Men (I really dig Ramos' art) -She-Hulk -Spider-Ham -All-New X-Men (because I love the REAL first class in ANY format) PAUSE... The Thing and Venom are now Guardians? I get Torch's connection to Inhumans, but Beast??? WTF?... -Daredevil (Gambit's new suit looks atrocious) ...and that's about it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellpop Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Spidey's off-world. His costume gets shredded. He needs new duds and happens along this amazing "fabric" that not only gives him a new look but can instantly go from street clothes to costume in a moment. ` Which was undeniably the kind of "change for change's sake" sales-driven gimmick you're decrying. I don't see how a magic outer space costume machine makes any more sense than Storm getting a tough-looking mohawk to lead the Morlocks, or Jane Foster picking up Mjolnir. >It's still Peter Parker. He didn't join a team and remained independent. But he got angrier and more violent – which was handled gradually, and was what I would consider reasoned character development. But then we find out he was just possessed by an alien, and he immediately turned back to the same-ol' happy-go-lucky Spidey. Which I would also consider change for change's sake – or rather, a reboot catering to the old-school guys who were tired of all the dark, violent heroes, etc and wanted "their" Spidey back. In the case of either one of those changes to the character, it showed the guy under the mask is just as mutable as the mask itself. The problem with costumes and lineups is that the changes never last for more then a few months, much less years and years. Because they come so frequently now, it just feels like change for the sake of change, as Valo put it. Often these lineups looked like they were picked by a random name generator, and the costumes from a DeviantArt contest. Why should we as readers get excited when we can bet that these books will have no lasting impact, and we'll be seeing them as curiosities in the discount bins in a few years? Honestly, as a "wait for the trade" guy, by the time I read many of these books, they will be completely dated. That's just inexcusable. I don't understand the standard by which you're judging "lasting impact" and "dated." There have always been plenty of throwaway plotlines – many more than significant, lasting changes in the way we thought about characters. Can you give an example of what you consider a lasting impact in a book? And if we're talking about teams picked by a random name generator, come on... you're an Avengers fan. When has that team not been a total hodgepodge? I'd argue it's only been recently (during the movie era) that the core team has reverted back to what it's "supposed" to be. Is this really just a problem with how comics are being marketed rather than how they're being written? Like, Marvel NOW! was presented as "everything has changed, nothing will be the same," but actually reading what happened before they put the logo on the covers and what happened after, to me stuff seemed to continue apace with very few universe-altering shakeups. Personally, I don't look much at the lineups or the costumes, but at the creators doing the books. Charles Soule and Ron Garney on Daredevil? I'll read that. Nick Spencer on Ant-Man? I'm in. James Robinson and Leonard Kirk on the Squadron? I'll check it out. Bendis on the Guardians. NOOOOOOOO WAY! Man, you really have it in for Bendis, don't you? I do! I absolutely think the negative kickback is a marketing problem as much as content. I like a lot of the books Marvel is publishing now (or were recently publishing... as I said, I'm behind on a lot of stuff). Your example of Marvel Now is exactly what I'm talking about; Marvel rebrands or relaunches books, throws out a bunch of images and press releases to hype people up... then does the same thing a year later. The hype hasn't matched the reality, regardless of the contents of the books. We all know that Sam Wilson, Jane Foster, and Miles Morales are just filling roles for a time being, just like Bucky Barnes and Otto Octaviius. That doesn't make the stories any less valid, but it does make the hype seem empty and condescending. As far as the Avengers goes, the last time they felt like the Avengers and not just a collection of heroes was during Kurt Busiek's run. And who was it that took the Avengers over shortly thereafter.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjwspider Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) I want a better look, but I'm really enjoying the new Spider-Man 2099 suit. Still not sure about the new Amazing Spider-Man look, but that could just be Alex Ross's design and some other artists may pull off the concept a bit smoother that what's been presented so far. I think I'm in the minority, but I'm looking forward to checking out quite a few of these new titles when they become available (through the Unlimited app that is). As for the other conversation, I have personally enjoyed a larger range of comics because of some of the changes that have been made. Superior Spider-Man turned out to be an absolute blast and I would happily pick up the ongoing adventures of Spidey-Ock. The Flash Thompson/Venom merger has been the best thing to come from both characters in a long, long time. The establishment of Miles Morales as Spider-Man in the Ultimate Universe was handled extremely well, I just wish we would have gotten some resolution to the return of Peter Parker and the spider-twins that popped up early in the MM:Ultimate Spidey run. The new Nova series was pretty well handled overall and I have enjoyed Mark Waid's take on DareDevil quite a bit. It's all personal choices, but I'm interested in seeing Peter Parker as a successful business man (not sure how the "body guard" angle works in a universe where Tony Stark has already outed himself as a body guard though). I'm interested to see what happens to Battleworld and how that plays into the new Marvel U. I don't expect everything to be a hit, or even good, but as long as I can enjoy some stories with characters I've either grown up with or grown to enjoy, I'll call it a win. Edited July 1, 2015 by jjwspider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBMM1 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I'm interested in seeing Peter Parker as a successful business man (not sure how the "body guard" angle works in a universe where Tony Stark has already outed himself as a body guard though). Don't forget that we're talking about a world filled with people who believed Peter when he said he was "just supplying tech to Spider-Man"... Not the brightest group of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMiracle Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Ugh! I'll think I'll sit this one out and wait for the next reboot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robs Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 -Daredevil (Gambit's new suit looks atrocious) That's not Gambit. I'm glad Soule is going to be writing Daredevil. He's an interesting writer and hopefully he can keep the long streak of great Daredevil runs going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniFiend UK Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Not saying anything on Spidey/Parkers next direction but heres a few images Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valo487 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Just to make sure my point was clear, I don't mind them trying new things, I think the new Thor and Falcon becoming Captain America are both interesting changes that I hope are allowed to play out for as long as there are good stories to tell, I have a big issue though with the way things are being done here, where almost everything is getting blown up and coming back as all new, all different. Just because it's new and different doesn't make it good or a worthy replacement. I'm reminded of a story Paul Dini told about being given an order by Warner Bros. to find a way to replace the Batman animated series. You know the one, the one that is still beloved decades later. He asked them why, and they said that things need to be new, hip, and fresh. Remind me of anything that they have done in animation since that has been the equal of that series. I encourage Marvel to try new things and see what works, but if you take away all the things that I enjoy already, and I don't find their replacements to be an adequate substitute, then I have very little left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polarboy Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think the idea of bringing the original X-Men into the here and now was as stupid as an ice teapot but I really liked the team costumes they ended up in and we got minimates of in wave 59. Now we are living in the distant future where wave 61 is on the shelves and those suits are already out dated. I have a nice display of 60's X-Men equally nice displays of 70's and 80's X-Men and a dam fine display of 90's X-Men yet every thing after that is some what a miss match of flavour of the month X characters. I don't blame the minimate people though because what the hell were the definitive X-Men looks of the 00's or 10's??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think the idea of bringing the original X-Men into the here and now was as stupid as an ice teapot but I really liked the team costumes they ended up in and we got minimates of in wave 59. Now we are living in the distant future where wave 61 is on the shelves and those suits are already out dated. Could not agree more. I was hoping to get X-23 in that uniform but, yeah, eight months later and they're already obsolete. I'd like Marvel to commit to something for a change. No more renumbering. If something doesn't work, fix it. It's like Zsa Zsa Gabor is running the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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