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Iceman Gets a Retcon...


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It seems so weird to me now that so many characters are now labelled "gay" or "bi" in an effort to attract readers or stir talk. It just doesn't feel like I need to know if someone is straight or gay or anything, and instead of adding character depth it's just adding needless shock value.

It doesn't bother me that Iceman is gay, but it bothers me that he's *suddenly* gay, just like that. You already have gay characters in Rictor, Shatterstar, Hulking, Wiccan and I think even Wolverine's son. Instead, they did another lazy handwave "he was totally gay the whole time guys" on an established character without having to actually show him being gay. Marvel continues to try and get credit for being progressive without putting in the work.

It's how I feel about characters switching race and genders now too, it's not for any real storytelling purposes, it's solely to stir controversy and get some media attention. Instead of focusing on established gay characters, they turn a popular character gay for no reason. You want to bring attention to __x__ group or __y__ problem? Don't just dump it on a popular character for no reason, find someone who fits and give that lesser seen character some much needed spotlight. There are already established gay characters for Marvel, why not showcase them?

And to top it off, the scene with Iceman is basically Jean confronting Bobby and abusing her powers to out him in a very awkward and (to Bobby) uncomfortable way. Way to go Marvel!

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It seems so weird to me now that so many characters are now labelled "gay" or "bi" in an effort to attract readers or stir talk. It just doesn't feel like I need to know if someone is straight or gay or anything, and instead of adding character depth it's just adding needless shock value.

It doesn't bother me that Iceman is gay, but it bothers me that he's *suddenly* gay, just like that. You already have gay characters in Rictor, Shatterstar, Hulking, Wiccan and I think even Wolverine's son. Instead, they did another lazy handwave "he was totally gay the whole time guys" on an established character without having to actually show him being gay. Marvel continues to try and get credit for being progressive without putting in the work.

It's how I feel about characters switching race and genders now too, it's not for any real storytelling purposes, it's solely to stir controversy and get some media attention. Instead of focusing on established gay characters, they turn a popular character gay for no reason. You want to bring attention to __x__ group or __y__ problem? Don't just dump it on a popular character for no reason, find someone who fits and give that lesser seen character some much needed spotlight. There are already established gay characters for Marvel, why not showcase them?

And to top it off, the scene with Iceman is basically Jean confronting Bobby and abusing her powers to out him in a very awkward and (to Bobby) uncomfortable way. Way to go Marvel!

Five C-at-best-listers are gay, so that's "enough"... I can't say I agree with or even understand that logic.

I DO agree with your sentiments re: Jean, however. Teen Jean is a little shit.

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I have NO issues with homosexuality, heterosexuality, or race or any of the other modern issues that Marvel wants to try and balance in their books. My issue is just wondering why there can't be new characters for these modern heroes. Stop changing characters we love and lets make room for new ones. /rant

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And supposedly they establish that Current Iceman isn't gay. So like... how the hell does that even work? Does he see a penis so entirely terrifying that he swears off gay for the rest of his life? Does he have a one night stand with Ghost Rider? Makes no sense.

Edited by Trekker 42
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And supposedly they establish that Current Iceman isn't gay. So like... how the hell does that even work? Does he see a penis so entirely terrifying that he swears off gay for the rest of his life? Does he have a one night stand with Ghost Rider? Makes no sense.

This whole story was concocted by the religious right to help explain to the impressionable, er, 40-somethings (not sure who else who can still afford comics nowadays), that sexual orientation is a choice. Edited by karamazov80
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And supposedly they establish that Current Iceman isn't gay. So like... how the hell does that even work? Does he see a penis so entirely terrifying that he swears off gay for the rest of his life? Does he have a one night stand with Ghost Rider? Makes no sense.

They probably aren't the younger 616 X-Men

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There has been speculation about Iceman's sexuality for years, particularly in the gay community. The way I'm looking at it is that current Bobby is gay too, just in deep denial.

I actually think a pretty valid point is being made, albeit clumsily.Lots of gay men end up denying who they are in an attempt to fit into acceptable societal norms.

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I agree that the concept of gay denial is an important one to explore as a lot of people suffer due to it, and I have no problem with a character having whatever sexual preferences they choose, what bothered me the most about this was jeans gross violation of personal thoughts and then to confront him on something he isn't ready to admit to himself is kinda awful of her. Then for them to blatantly push aside the thought of him being bisexual in favor of Jean saying he's "more full gay" seems like a step backward. Yes we need more representation of lbgtq characters but that means the entire spectrum, not just one facet, so for them to push the concept away so quickly and so bluntly felt a little backwards to me.

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I couldn't care less about Bobby's sexuality. It's not a huge change for the character, so whatever. What I do care about is the fact that that is literally the laziest comic book page I've ever seen. There are 8 panels, and 6 of them are copy/pastes, and there isn't even dialogue to make up for it...

Edited by Glantern
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I agree that the concept of gay denial is an important one to explore as a lot of people suffer due to it...

This is why I blame Bruce Jenner. The guy waited 'til he was 65 to decide, "Nope, I'm a chick."

As for Jean, I have no idea how young she's supposed to be but personal space isn't something kids – mutants or otherwise – intuitively respect. Let's face it; if you hit puberty and suddenly gained Jean's abilities, it wouldn't be a matter of reading minds so much as admitting to reading them.

Jean and Bobby are friends. There's trust. So she gets to read a stray thought and he gets to call her a "nosey bitch." She only outed him to himself.

Besides, how much control does young Jean have over these powers at this point?

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In that situation though, instead of Jean trying to tell Bobby that "cat-calling" or shouting out sexual names at a woman isn't the best thing to be doing, she reads his mind without his permission and confronts him when he's not ready about his deepest and most closely guarded secret. Then at the same time telling him he's not bi, that he's "full gay" which sounds derogatory in itself, even among friends.

It reads like a literal horror story of "outing" someone. It's like exactly what you should never do. Jean completely ignored the original issue of Bobby saying stupid things, and turned it into Bobby suddenly being gay. Everything about the situation is ridiculous and didn't need to be done at all.

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You're totally dismissing the fact that these are kids. Kids rarely behave as adults.

Bobby wasn't outed to anyone who didn't already know he was homosexual. From what I've read, he's still "in."

I guess it's safe to say that adult Bobby is in denial and that adult Jean has been keeping his secret, too. Probably Professor X as well.

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I'll agree that Jean SHOULD have been spending more time addressing Bobby's bad behavior, not dwelling on the underlying cause. Gay, straight, or otherwise, Bobby is a walking talking trigger and many women probably don't feel safe reading X-Men because he's objectifying their form and marginalizing their true empowered value. Or something.

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There's still the inevitable problem of "why"? Jean confronts Bobby about cat calling and she calls him out as "full gay". How does this help the situation? No one else knows he's gay so is he going to stop cat calling? Then if that's the case, why did Bobby have to be gay in the first place? Couldn't hey have just written something positive about NOT objectifying women or saying sexualized things about them?

And then I get PL saying they're just kids, but still that was handled in the absolute poorest way possible. Jean was trained to use her powers by then and would have been told not to confront people in such ways especially by Prof X. You are lying to yourself if you think Xavier never said "By the way, maybe it's not a good idea to find a persons deepest secret then confront them on it in a situation where it's not warranted at all."

It all boils down to a bad writer though, someone who has no experience dealing with these issues and should have never brought them up. He literally did everything wrong in that one page.

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There is an interesting argument to be made for fluid sexuality. Perhaps Bobby was gay as a young man, and is straight in his 30's? It's not unheard of.

It's also possible that this is not 616 Bobby. We have assumed these kids are all the 616 youngsters, but what if this is more like Ultimate Colossus?

Perhaps there were issues regarding repression? Bobby has had serious issues with 'coming out' father to his father as a mutant, and having his father accept him. Maybe being a mutant and gay was too much for him? The conversation that Jean & Bobby share about people not caring here as much as they do where they came from is a pretty relevant argument. What if Iceman *had* grown up in more modern times? Maybe he would have had the freedom to be gay? Can you imagine what it would be like to be a homosexual in the 60's or 70's as a teen where there are no role models, no options and no freedoms, and then suddenly being transplanted to 2015? Being told 'you're ok. you're free to be happy now'? This actually opens up some really interesting ideas for character development & exploring differing social mores.

I don't dig ret-conning. I think it's lazy. There are a few cases of reveals working really well, such as the Shatterstar & Rictor 'outing'. DC's Green Lantern bit felt a little forced.

This is an interesting case, and i'm willing to see where it goes before i break out the pitchforks and torches.

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When I first read the news story and the accompanying comic panels yesterday, my reaction was mixed. The advocate has the full set of panels: http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/geek/2015/04/21/one-original-x-men-comes-out-gay-spoilers

On one hand, I love the inclusion of gay characters, and why not Bobby?

On the other, the writer chose to out him through Jean, in a very invasive way. She outs him. She tells him he is gay--that she knows because she just read his thoughts. In the span of ten panels he accepts it. She reassures him that we (the current society) are more accepting than the one they come from. And suddenly he calls her a "nosey bitch" and he's Jean's token gay BFF. And EVERYTHING is fine.

Clearly this writer knows how to create situations and wrap them up neatly into a nice package. As readers that isn't what we want--we want storytelling, not storyplopping.

My favorite part is he put up an ice-wall because he didn't want to talk to her about it.

It's been a while, but Claremont (whose original run is my favorite) used to build characters by putting them in situations, not by making them the situation, right?



There is an interesting argument to be made for fluid sexuality. Perhaps Bobby was gay as a young man, and is straight in his 30's? It's not unheard of.

It's also possible that this is not 616 Bobby. We have assumed these kids are all the 616 youngsters, but what if this is more like Ultimate Colossus?

Perhaps there were issues regarding repression? Bobby has had serious issues with 'coming out' father to his father as a mutant, and having his father accept him. Maybe being a mutant and gay was too much for him? The conversation that Jean & Bobby share about people not caring here as much as they do where they came from is a pretty relevant argument. What if Iceman *had* grown up in more modern times? Maybe he would have had the freedom to be gay? Can you imagine what it would be like to be a homosexual in the 60's or 70's as a teen where there are no role models, no options and no freedoms, and then suddenly being transplanted to 2015? Being told 'you're ok. you're free to be happy now'? This actually opens up some really interesting ideas for character development & exploring differing social mores.

I don't dig ret-conning. I think it's lazy. There are a few cases of reveals working really well, such as the Shatterstar & Rictor 'outing'. DC's Green Lantern bit felt a little forced.

This is an interesting case, and i'm willing to see where it goes before i break out the pitchforks and torches.

What if teen Bobby coming out is a realization for adult Bobby and he in turn comes out?

Also, is it retconning Iceman's character considering these teens are supposed to be different than their adult counterparts?

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What if teen Bobby coming out is a realization for adult Bobby and he in turn comes out?

Also, is it retconning Iceman's character considering these teens are supposed to be different than their adult counterparts?

Yeah - that's totally plausible as well. That's kind of what i was getting at - everyone who's upset about this and thinks that it's a cheap retcon should consider that this could actually be an interesting character driven arc that leads to adult Bobby being a happier, more settled individual.

The fluid sexuality part is just another theory.

I do agree with what most people here have said about Jean's intrusion. It was thoughtless (no pun intended), pretty rude and potentially dangerous. I've spent abtu 7 or 8 years volunteering with at-risk, same-sex attracted young people.... and confronting them and forcing them to come out before they are ready can actually be really hurtful and damaging. I wouldn't expect Jean (as a 16yo from decades ago) to know or understand that, but i wonder if the writers did any research into this before writing what they've written and potentially influencing other young readers to act in a similar way.

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And then I get PL saying they're just kids, but still that was handled in the absolute poorest way possible. Jean was trained to use her powers by then and would have been told not to confront people in such ways especially by Prof X. You are lying to yourself if you think Xavier never said "By the way, maybe it's not a good idea to find a persons deepest secret then confront them on it in a situation where it's not warranted at all."

In the book, young Jean abusing her powers and invading everyone's privacy has been an ongoing storyline. The stress of finding out about her future Dark Phoenix stuff basically kicked her powers into overdrive, so she has full adult Jean psychic power that the Xavier of her time hadn't trained her to deal with yet, combined with teenage poor decision making. Emma Frost is trying to train her now.

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