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Daredevil Netflix (& other show) minimates?


Roccothegreat

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Just to keep beating a dead horse, I decided to do a little experiment the other day. At FYE, Hot Topic, Toys R Us, I saw Daredevil merchandise available, and that doesn't even take into account the online retailers that are carrying stuff as well. But it doesn't matter, I think it's about time to take another hiatus from the board, the feedback I'm feeling is making this not that fun. Not from anyone in particular, just in general. I feel like there's just an overwhelming amount of "We can't do this or we won't do that," and it doesn't matter if you can argue the point, it's not going to change anything.

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I totally understand why DST would be reluctant to pay even more money for a character they already have just to offer a somewhat different look and maybe some supporting characters. Despite the fact that Daredevil is largely underrepresented in the Marvel line, I get it. Even though he's one of the characters who launched the line and warrants a spot in the "Best of" assortments, it makes sense to use the comic version first. And I know that doesn't stop DST from shucking out more money for characters like Ant-Man but that little dude's got a feature film with a robust marketing campaign behind it. The mass specialty market will eat him up.

What struck me was this blanket statement suggesting that if it's on Netflix, it's too risky. I guess that goes for ABC as well since those new characters aren't worth the extra licensing fees either even although, like Ant-Man, it's marketed as essentially a spinoff of The Avengers.

And honestly, if I had to replace any assortment over the last year with Minimates of Agents of SHIELD, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with something. The Wolverine leaps to mind but again, I doubt retailers would have bought into SHIELD the way they did Hugh Jackman's highly anticipated followup to his vulgar, uncredited cameo in X-Men: First Class.

DST can afford to wait. They have the Marvel Comics license and can certainly offer a comic-based tie-in as they did with Winter Soldier and Days of Future Past. Maybe we'll get comic versions of The Owl and Foggy and Ben and Stick just like we've gotten comic versions of Coulson and May.

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I feel like there's just an overwhelming amount of "We can't do this or we won't do that," and it doesn't matter if you can argue the point, it's not going to change anything.

Does this surprise you, though? They're running a business and they have specific ideas on how they want to run it. They have numbers to back up those ideas, too. I'm not saying other numbers don't exist to contradict that. But let me put it this way... An intelligent person can make a case for almost anything, including but not limited to the production of Netflix Daredevil Minimates. But just because a consumer - or many consumers - can make a good argument for something, that doesn't mean a business is going to do a 180 on the spot.

Maybe Zach has communicated the passion for a Netflix wave to Chuck. Maybe Chuck has revisited the numbers and is considering the possibility, going forward. Or, maybe the deal would be so counter-productive on paper that there's no pitch that will get it considered. We don't know, and it doesn't matter. The money we give DST is in exchange for their product, not for shares of the company.

Would I love Netflix Minimates? Probably, depending on execution. But there's enough other great product coming along that my wallet counts this as a mixed blessing. ::shrugs::

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Not at all, every word you say is true, but I think it's the way it's delivered. If they say they're not working on them right now, but they will keep an eye on it in the future, that is a lot more helpful than basically just dismissing the entire concept in a flippant way. I've managed to keep hope alive for Toad for 10 years, because at one point they released concept art of the character, so maybe one day we'll get him. But if they come out and say he will never be made, all that does is disappoint everybody. I will admit part of it is frustration because it seems like whatever the people who are in charge of the line personally like makes it in, whether it is justifiable by their own standards they use for others or not, but other ideas are dismissed. They can do a better job of making people excited. Every Q&A they post is just a series of things getting shot down. Give people something to hope for, even if it takes a while.

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Honestly, I feel like most of Chuck's answers are "No plans right now, but never say never" which is, in my mind, the definition of giving people something to hope for, even if it takes a while.

The problem is the law of diminishing returns. If there are 100 Marvel characters total and 50 you want, then the odds are in your favor that at least one figure in each pack will be one you want. But what happens when, of the first 50 figures made, you actually get 40 you wanted!? Well, great, but... now, out of the 50 remaining slots, you only want ten. That means your odds just dropped to one in five, not to mention redos and whatnot. The point is, every time one of your wants gets checked off, you become that much harder to please. And I don't mean just you.

I've said it before... DST puts out top notch product and they do quite a bit of fan service along the way. If the trade off is having to wait that much longer for the chance to get the last few characters I want, well... It's worth it

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I will admit part of it is frustration because it seems like whatever the people who are in charge of the line personally like makes it in, whether it is justifiable by their own standards they use for others or not, but other ideas are dismissed.

This is the source of my waning enthusiasm for the Marvel line. If I thought these decisions were being made purely on some objective basis of popularity and marketability than I would feel confident that eventually some of the stuff I'm really interested in could get made. As it is, I think there's a large number of characters, and not just ten obscure ones from a wishlist, that won't even get to the point of being considered.

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I'll say it ....I'd like a Netflix DD 'mate but if a Netflix DD 'mate nudges out a comic-based character of similar stature (obscurity?) then count me in as not wanting one .

I have a Diamond Steam Train season ticket . Chuck drives the train, I'm onboard & as long as I can dine in the Marvel-comic diner carriage regularly I'll stay to the end of the line , leave me with an empty stomach & I'll eventually get off at the next station & dine elsewhere

With respect , DST ,don't forget your roots .

"Some of the old songs I sing often because they help me to reflect on where I've been & that's important for me to do so I don't lose track of where I'm going "

-Johnny Cash

Because you're mine I bought the line .

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Honestly, I feel like most of Chuck's answers are "No plans right now, but never say never" which is, in my mind, the definition of giving people something to hope for, even if it takes a while.

The problem is the law of diminishing returns. If there are 100 Marvel characters total and 50 you want, then the odds are in your favor that at least one figure in each pack will be one you want. But what happens when, of the first 50 figures made, you actually get 40 you wanted!? Well, great, but... now, out of the 50 remaining slots, you only want ten. That means your odds just dropped to one in five, not to mention redos and whatnot. The point is, every time one of your wants gets checked off, you become that much harder to please. And I don't mean just you.

I've said it before... DST puts out top notch product and they do quite a bit of fan service along the way. If the trade off is having to wait that much longer for the chance to get the last few characters I want, well... It's worth it

That bit about the law of diminishing returns is true. I mean, we can all argue about who is missing from the line, but at the end of the day all of the MAJOR characters have been covered. There's not a glaring hole in the collection. It's really easy to lose that perspective though, When Mattel's DC Universe Classics line was coming to an end, there was a lot of grumbling from fans about "how could this character have never been made", and every single one was a matter of opinion. You may think it's an injustice that we never got Vixen; I may feel that way about Warlord; but neither one of us is right, because at the end of the day they are not major omissions.

As far as Minimates goes, I think the key is balance, and hitting all the different aspects of the Marvel Universe. That means not only the different groupings, but also different time periods. You all know that I get grumpy whenever new X-Men related sets are announced; that's because the last few years have been VERY X-heavy, with multiple comics waves and box sets devoted to that one corner of the Marvel Universe to the exclusion of the others. And I'm pretty sure I know why: they sell better. DST's end goal is not to create an expansive Marvel Universe, but to sell product. If that means we get another 90s X-Force box set rather then, say, the West Coast Avengers, I can understand that thinking. I don't have to like it, but I understand it.

It doesn't do DST any favors, though, when Hasbro is sitting over there playing Fan Service Bingo with Marvel Legends (and to a lesser extent the 3 3/4" line). We now have the COMPLETE Wrecking Crew, in two different scales. We've got two Hyperions. Hell, we've got Batroc! I repeat: WE HAVE A MARVEL LEGENDS BATROC. Sure, there are plenty of great characters that have Minimates and not Marvel Legends, but the perception right now is that Hasbro is playing to the fans and DST has fallen behind.

Still... Dazzler/ Howard the Duck. I am in no way complaining. thumbsup.gif

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Honestly, I feel like most of Chuck's answers are "No plans right now, but never say never" which is, in my mind, the definition of giving people something to hope for, even if it takes a while.

The problem is the law of diminishing returns. If there are 100 Marvel characters total and 50 you want, then the odds are in your favor that at least one figure in each pack will be one you want. But what happens when, of the first 50 figures made, you actually get 40 you wanted!? Well, great, but... now, out of the 50 remaining slots, you only want ten. That means your odds just dropped to one in five, not to mention redos and whatnot. The point is, every time one of your wants gets checked off, you become that much harder to please. And I don't mean just you.

I've said it before... DST puts out top notch product and they do quite a bit of fan service along the way. If the trade off is having to wait that much longer for the chance to get the last few characters I want, well... It's worth it

That bit about the law of diminishing returns is true. I mean, we can all argue about who is missing from the line, but at the end of the day all of the MAJOR characters have been covered. There's not a glaring hole in the collection. It's really easy to lose that perspective though, When Mattel's DC Universe Classics line was coming to an end, there was a lot of grumbling from fans about "how could this character have never been made", and every single one was a matter of opinion. You may think it's an injustice that we never got Vixen; I may feel that way about Warlord; but neither one of us is right, because at the end of the day they are not major omissions.

As far as Minimates goes, I think the key is balance, and hitting all the different aspects of the Marvel Universe. That means not only the different groupings, but also different time periods. You all know that I get grumpy whenever new X-Men related sets are announced; that's because the last few years have been VERY X-heavy, with multiple comics waves and box sets devoted to that one corner of the Marvel Universe to the exclusion of the others. And I'm pretty sure I know why: they sell better. DST's end goal is not to create an expansive Marvel Universe, but to sell product. If that means we get another 90s X-Force box set rather then, say, the West Coast Avengers, I can understand that thinking. I don't have to like it, but I understand it.

It doesn't do DST any favors, though, when Hasbro is sitting over there playing Fan Service Bingo with Marvel Legends (and to a lesser extent the 3 3/4" line). We now have the COMPLETE Wrecking Crew, in two different scales. We've got two Hyperions. Hell, we've got Batroc! I repeat: WE HAVE A MARVEL LEGENDS BATROC. Sure, there are plenty of great characters that have Minimates and not Marvel Legends, but the perception right now is that Hasbro is playing to the fans and DST has fallen behind.

Still... Dazzler/ Howard the Duck. I am in no way complaining. thumbsup.gif

I concur, 100%, with EVERYTHING you just said.

There are plenty of Mates I'd still like to have, but few that are glaring omissions at this point. I'd argue that Toad and Wasp are the two biggest oversights thus far, but again... personal opinion.

Your comment about Hasbro is also right on the nose - Legends started strong all those years ago, then leveled off for a LONG time. All that while, Minimates was kicking ass. Over the past... two years?... the tables have turned considerably. DST focuses more on the movie waves now while Hasbro is finally taking some chances. Worse yet, it's the exact characters that DST has ignored/missed - the Wrecking Crew, Uncanny NOW Storm, Cyclops, and Magik, Strfye. It's easy to forget that we've got Alicia Masters and the Puppet Master, the Outback X-Men, Alpha Flight, an army of Sentinels, the stone men, and three partial X-Force teams.

the last few years have been VERY X-heavy, with multiple comics waves and box sets devoted to that one corner of the Marvel Universe

But still no 90's X-Factor or Generation X (or even a complete 90's X-Force - what are we missing, 2 characters?). sad.png

Liefeld team: Sunspot, Warpath, Siryn, Boom Boom

Capullo team: Sunspot, Warpath, Siryn, Feral

So, four either way

One wave, with a Stryfe/Zero two-pack to round it out

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I mean, we can all argue about who is missing from the line, but at the end of the day all of the MAJOR characters have been covered. There's not a glaring hole in the collection.

That depends on how one views the collection.

In the context of the MCU, of which Netflix and ABC shows are a part, there will apparently be several major characters that won't be covered, not because of a mandate from Marvel (Fantastic Four) but because DST doesn't do Marvel TV.

So no Daredevil, no Luke Cage or Iron Fist, no Agent Carter or Jessica Jones. In terms of how few characters warrant their own live-action project – add Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Thor, and now Ant-Man to the list – that's half of the stable.

I think that's a pretty big hole in the MCU collection and a seemingly arbitrary one at that.

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You did get Agent Carter in the Cap movie line. wink.png

I was speaking specifically of the Marvel comics sets, but you're certainly right about the Marvel live-action stuff. And, since DST usually can't go back to a film after a certain point, there are always going to be characters (Silver Samurai) that slip through the cracks. I do expect that, now that Daredevil has proven to be a hit, we will see 'mates down the road. That may just be blind optimism though.

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I obviously don't know better than anyone else here, but I imagine that DST is waiting on the Netflix stuff before jumping in, and I'm ok with that. In fact, it might be better for them to just do a Defenders 4-pack with DD, Iron Fist, Luke Cage, and Jessica Jones. No offense to other characters in the show, but I don't think Foggy, Karen, Ben, or Wesley would make very fun toys. I mean, I'd love to have them, but, you know...

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You all know that I get grumpy whenever new X-Men related sets are announced; that's because the last few years have been VERY X-heavy, with multiple comics waves and box sets devoted to that one corner of the Marvel Universe to the exclusion of the others. And I'm pretty sure I know why: they sell better.

Do they? I don't doubt the Jim Lee X-Men are very successful and that X-Force does all right, but after that it I think it gets debatable. Wave 47 is still easy to get almost three years later. Wave 59 is much more scarce but it's not sold out on DST's website. The Days of Future Past boxset was discounted almost immediately. The X-Men AvX set is still easy to acquire. I don't think the Age of X (how did this even get made?), Curse of the Mutants, or First Class boxsets were big successes, or at least they hung around for a long time. Uncanny X-Force did sell very quickly. Taken together, I really don't see that X-Men are dramatically more successful than the other corners of the Marvel Universe, if they are at all.

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You all know that I get grumpy whenever new X-Men related sets are announced; that's because the last few years have been VERY X-heavy, with multiple comics waves and box sets devoted to that one corner of the Marvel Universe to the exclusion of the others. And I'm pretty sure I know why: they sell better.

Do they? I don't doubt the Jim Lee X-Men are very successful and that X-Force does all right, but after that it I think it gets debatable. Wave 47 is still easy to get almost three years later. Wave 59 is much more scarce but it's not sold out on DST's website. The Days of Future Past boxset was discounted almost immediately. The X-Men AvX set is still easy to acquire. I don't think the Age of X (how did this even get made?), Curse of the Mutants, or First Class boxsets were big successes, or at least they hung around for a long time. Uncanny X-Force did sell very quickly. Taken together, I really don't see that X-Men are dramatically more successful than the other corners of the Marvel Universe, if they are at all.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I think DST has far overdone the X-Men, and a lot of the sets you mention are big offenders. But, remember, DST is more concerned about what retailers are buying then what we are buying from retailers. Comics shops must be more buying those sets with an X at higher quantities, or they wouldn't keep going back to that well.

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I'm not ready to chalk it all up to retailers. No doubt they're willing to buy but I think the preferences at DST play a major role, probably more than those of the retailers themselves. If we'd seen more X-merchandise in other lines I might think otherwise. Of course there's no way to know for sure since we'll never see the data and it would never be admitted to.

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I obviously don't know better than anyone else here, but I imagine that DST is waiting on the Netflix stuff before jumping in, and I'm ok with that. In fact, it might be better for them to just do a Defenders 4-pack with DD, Iron Fist, Luke Cage, and Jessica Jones. No offense to other characters in the show, but I don't think Foggy, Karen, Ben, or Wesley would make very fun toys. I mean, I'd love to have them, but, you know...

Good post, and that would make sense. If the investment is to be made, why not capitalize on it in the most efficient way possible. DD and black suit DD are going to be the only really desirable figures from season 1 IMO. Fisk and ninja might seem like potential sellers, but I can see them peg warming (the Wolverine was full of ninjas no one wanted to buy). Of course, if season 2 has Punisher, Bullseye, and maybe Elektra. . .

Edited by karamazov80
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Why not a comic DD wave? Just with characters from the show.

Man without Fear Daredevil (it's almost the same as the TV show), Elektra, Bullseye, Punisher, Owl, Gladiator...Foggy? Karen? Another Kingpin? Just an idea.

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I don't think DST would do a wave just based on DD; they would definitely throw at least a Spider-Man in there. You would think that plus a Daredevil, Bullseye, and Punisher would give you a solid base for a wave. Gladiator would make for a cool minimate, and there would be some reuse potential for the blades on a Whirlwind. I'd be shocked if they ever made Karen or Foggy though, it's not like they're as significant as someone like Jean DeWolff.

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Because if Chuck doesn't view Wave 60 as a "huge success", then he most likely views Wave 38's Daredevil themed Shadowland wave as a "complete failure".

Soft sales of Wave 38, the only DareDevil dedicated wave, are most likely on what he is basing his decision to not pursue the TV show license.

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