Superior Spider-Man question.

[minimadman]

I have read a couple issues of Superior Spider-Man and I don't really care for it but I have a question for those of you who read it regularly. Does anyone notice that Peter Parker is kind of an asshole now?

[Valo487]

I wouldn't say Peter is being an asshole. The guy in the driver's seat though...

[Kostisfire]

If your question is, whether other characters in the Marvel u have noticed that "Peter" is acting weird then so far the Avengers have put him on probation and Carly has pretty much figured it out. MJ is having some doubts too. I haven't read 14 and team up 1 yet but the solicits for issues 18- 20 show that he's gathering the sinister six as his own army (apart from his minions in Spider Island 2).

Edited July 26, 2013 by Kostisfire

[Zexion_Armando]

Team Up shows that the Avengers are kinda coming around to his way of thinking, but still think he is an asshole.

I love it though. Peter is nice, but its good to have a change of character, and this is perfect. Ock uses his advance knowledge of tech and nueroscience to make Spider Man's job easier, more widespread, and isn't afraid to make his hands dirty.

the only thing I dislike is his blackmailing of JJJ. I liked that Jonah was on his side.

[Valo487]

I'm just really curious where this is going to finally resolve, I don't want this to be status quo forever, but I really like this version of Spider-Man. But I also want Peter Parker back at some point. What will happen to Doctor Octopus once Peter comes back?

[Zexion_Armando]

I assume he'll get a new body, or we'll see Robo-Octopus

[undeadpool]

Im hoping that Spock stays around for at least another year or two, i do want Peter back eventually, but this is a great change of pace and its a lot of fun seeing spidey being a jerk but also being a lot better at his job. I do think ock is gonna have to recalibrate and act differently due to some of his crazy (buy awesomely effective) recent actions

[Kostisfire]

I as well love this series. If you go to most comic sites you will see all of the members talking about how much this series sucks. I get it that what Ock did wasn't heroic and at heart he still is a villain. If you don't like it fine, don't talk about it. But when i go to the superior spiderman disscusion thread in th comicvine forum i expect to read what others think about the title, not read 30 pages of whining and making fan of Slott. Anyway, back to the book, i think this is a lesson Peter needed. He was always a really,really good guy that at times reached the level of stupidity. He let Ock live even though his death was inevitable. He was a crazy lunatic and Peter still saved him. Pete never really amped his game. He was all: I'll go swing through the city and i'll stop whoever i come accross. It doesn't work like that. Ock plans and then acts. The spider bots were an ingenious idea. Peter needs to learn that times have changed and that he needs to amp his game. He has the brains and the resources. Ock constantly challenges himself and surpases Pete as far as how efective he is. When it comes to character though, Ock still is a big jerk but i do enjoy his choice of words and the way he talks. Peter is the hero, the true hero that will never back down and that's what makes him special. Ock is an anti-hero who is trying to get out of his life of villainy. I think that he is on the path to redemption and he is taking small steps everytime.

Most think that Slott hates Peter but as he states i think he really likes Pete. He's trying to give him a lesson, that sometimes, hard decisions must be made. I'm not saying that Spidey should start killing people but he should have ended Ock when he had the chance. I also liked how asm 700 ended. Pete is not the guy who wants to get medals. He went out and nobody noticed it and that's what made it all the more tragic. It reminds me of a scene in "Company Men" where an old "golden boy" was laid off. He then said: "My whole life just ende and the world keeps going on". Peter died and the world keeps on turning. "His" life ended and nobody cared. That in my opinion makes it better than him having a classic death. He died battling the bad guys but hey, here's a new spiderman! They did that in the Ultimate universe. But, even in death he still beat Ock, he made him into a "good guy". That's what sets Peter apart from other heroes. That's what i'd like to see Ock understand. I'd like to see him just sit down and accept that Peter was a damn hero. Not go all: I'm better! I'm superior! I'm the best! He was written a lot better in the AOU mini-issue. But, i think that Slott will eventually make him into a true hero.

And yea, i'd like to see this thing stay. Many hints have been dropped in the book that this isn't Peter and eventually either the truth will come out or Ock will slowly become Peter. He will stop reffering to himself as Dr. Octavius and he will become Peter Parker. In the Marvel U it has been stated that every person has a soul and while Ock swaped brains he didn't erase Pete's soul. That's why he became a hero, not because of Pete's memories but because Pete's soul is in there. Ock, deep down is still Peter and i think that "his" soul will slowly take him over and Pete will, in a way return.

[lemonfreshviper22]

I've been enjoying the book quite a bit and they've done some work in addressing how Peter's behavior is different, though I think only Black Widow, Thor, Wolverine and Cap have really said anything about it. Natasha thinks it's because he's feeling guilty over the death of Silver Sable back in Ends of the Earth, Wolverine has, of late, had a majorly antagonistic relationship with him anyway, and Cap has been kind of been shown up by Peter/Ock the two instances I remember it coming up. I can't really remember if Thor thought much about it, other than "whatta jerk".

That's all stuff in Superior though. There was a moment in Avengers where Peter ate some of Cannonball's food from the fridge; Sam took it to Tony but it ended up with Peter swinging away and Tony not thinking much about it.

Recent stuff at Marvel has kind of rewritten how characters look at Spidey in the grand scheme of things, and though I don't always like it (a moment in an otherwise excellent issue of ASM teaming Peter up with the Avengers Academy had Hank Pym say "you're the example we teach them NOT to be like") it has been... semi-consistent I guess. Peter used to have a ton of respect for Captain America, but recent stories with them have been based around a kind of Odd Couple old fart/young whippersnapper dynamic. I can't really see the pre-New Avengers #1 era Peter ever having been annoyed by Cap but they seem to go in and out of it. Marvel editorial has been a little looser in the character's histories of late, the most dramatic example I can think of being Hawkeye's change from being a boisterous and competitive loudmouth with plenty of talent to a sadsack on the down and out in Fraction's Hawkeye. It's been more about staying true to the individual writer's take on a character in other words.

So for now, I think Ock's going to toe the line; I imagine a possible endgame being most of New York's major heroes teaming up to take him down at the Raft when the facade is uncovered, but for now he's going to keep ahead of them in terms of effectiveness and legal maneuvering. I don't know if the government sanctions the Avengers anymore (because who can keep track of all 7 teams or whatever) but Spidey's at least go the approval of the mayor of NYC. I'm loving how drastic Superior can get, even in the space of one issue, and I hope Slott gets to tell the whole story he wants; the only things I haven't been totally into so far is the bizarrely mute impact of the Massacre issue (that is to say, the next issue starts up without really showing a reaction to it from anyone; surely MJ would be FREAKING OUT) and how the Raft story with Smythe could have been an issue shorter.

When Peter's back I'll be thrilled but it's fun to see Ock, and Slott as a writer, play with such an outrageous set of circumstances.

[Valo487]

I just can't understand why people would hate the book. To me, it's the same problem that I had with the people who got so bent out of shape when Dick Grayson was Batman for a while. If you allegedly like a character, but you only can stand to read stories when that character is the central focus and you have so little interest in their supporting casts that you won't be able to enjoy a book to see what it would be like without that character as they know it, then you really don't like that character that much.

This is obviously not going to be permanent, it's not the Clone Saga which was designed to take Peter Parker out of the Spiderman comics for good and replace him with a new one, this is just a storyline that is playing out over a long period of time, but we all know that it's obviously going to end with Peter Parker back as Spiderman.

[Kostisfire]

I just can't understand why people would hate the book. To me, it's the same problem that I had with the people who got so bent out of shape when Dick Grayson was Batman for a while. If you allegedly like a character, but you only can stand to read stories when that character is the central focus and you have so little interest in their supporting casts that you won't be able to enjoy a book to see what it would be like without that character as they know it, then you really don't like that character that much.

This is obviously not going to be permanent, it's not the Clone Saga which was designed to take Peter Parker out of the Spiderman comics for good and replace him with a new one, this is just a storyline that is playing out over a long period of time, but we all know that it's obviously going to end with Peter Parker back as Spiderman.

I don't get it either. If you go to comicvine you'll read 30 pages of this: OMG, Slott is a fat ass! Petitions to bring back Pete! Superior sucks! Look, i get it,, Ock stole his life and there's no way around it but come on. There are countless villains turned heroes characters. What they don't understand is that this isn't the classic Ock. It's a combination of Pete and Ock, it's just that Ock's personality has sort of taken over. The way i look it, it's a chance to tell new stories. Tell me this: would you want to read the same story every month? Spidey books had become quite repetitive the last couple of years. Swing through the city, beat up a bad guy, have something unlucky happen, the end. But now, you have new stories to tell both with SpOck and new stories to tell when Pete gets back. It's a win-win situation. Batman made a family and this allows for new stories. Just like that, Spidey evolved. Sure, i would have preffered Pete to be in the driver's seat but i really,really like this direction.

[stack32]

I just can't understand why people would hate the book. To me, it's the same problem that I had with the people who got so bent out of shape when Dick Grayson was Batman for a while. If you allegedly like a character, but you only can stand to read stories when that character is the central focus and you have so little interest in their supporting casts that you won't be able to enjoy a book to see what it would be like without that character as they know it, then you really don't like that character that much.

While I'm sure much of the criticism is overheated and probably has as much to do with all of the other things that have upset people about the Spider-Man books over the past five years or so I don't see any inconsistency here. If you like the character of Peter Parker as Spider-Man and that character is removed than an awful lot of what you like about the book is gone. It's not like people are reading to catch up on the continuing adventures of Aunt May.

[Valo487]

To me though, this storyline allows us to explore a version of Spider-Man we'd never get to see normally. I think this version is very much what Spider-Man might have been like if he hasn't lost Uncle Ben. Granted, Doctor Octopus taking over his mind is an element as well, but this is Spider-Man without restraint. I know this wont last, that's why I can enjoy it so much.

[lemonfreshviper22]

Anything they end up doing with Otto is going to be far less disappointing to me than most other villain characters that writers have redeemed. I love seeing it but many of the times it's been genuinely earned, it was backpedaled on later. Sandman comes to mind as an early example but my heart broke a little when Constrictor and Taskmaster got to points where they could at least be trying to be better than what they were, only to have that paved over later. At least there were reasons for them to do so, which is more than the weird ongoing saga of Sandman and his never actually good hidden persona. Every time Zemo appears now I'm afraid they're going to make him into pure evil after Fabian Niecieza spent the better part of a decade taking him full circle past being a villain into a unique anti-hero type, something I loved even though Genis-Vell, a character I really liked, was a casualty in the process. Hard to believe the bad guy of 'Under Siege' could be worked into making sense as something of a hero but they pulled it off. For me anyway.

I don't think Otto's going to end up being a good guy, even in the Zemo sense, but it's fun to see them try. As a lifelong Spidey fan who walked off the books when 'Chapter One' was happening, the craziness of Superior brought me back full time instead of just keeping tabs on things. I hadn't bought a Spider-Man monthly book in over a decade by that point.

The upswing for the people who miss Peter is that they're going to get a TON of him when he has to explain the past few weeks/months/whatever in Marvel time that Ock was in control. I admire Slott's ambition as the book does something huge to the status quo with basically every issue.

[Onyx_6]

Not have read a Spider-Man book since Grim Hunt, my take/thought on this is: What if no one learns it was Ock? Everyone hates Spidey for what he has become. His relationships, both personal and professional, are almost non-existent. He is no longer a welcome member on any "team" books. Maybe this is the ultimate reset button for Spidey.

Again, this is just my thoughts from reading the above in this thread and my limited knowledge of the last 5 years of Spiderman.

[mcg031]

As a spidey fan I love this direction not because of Dr. Ock but because of Peter 's comeback from this. This had been the greatest defeat Peter has been dealt and I wanna see how he comes back and his reaction to Ocks good deeds. Btw I live the superior Spider-Man minimates!

[jjwspider]

I'm loving this new direction. After OMD, I dropped the adventures of the devil-dealing Spider-Man. I just couldn't relate to a character that preached, Great Power and Great Responsibilty, only to make a deal that flew in the face of everything he stood for. With that said, I have read a few issues and wound up picking ASM #700. The ending was unexpected and really set up Ock with a new mission - become Superior, not just as Spidey but as Peter Parker. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I never thought Ock intended to be "evil", he just let his arrogance get in the way. Once his body became fused to his extra arms, we saw the mental breakdown of a genuis, someone that knew that had wasted their sole opportunity to do good and wouldn't get another chance because of the miscalculation he had made.

The ability to transfer minds gave him back his youth and a better body to accomplish his goals. I hope that this story allows for the humanization of Doc Ock a little and that he begins to learn about the role Great Power and Great Responsibiltiy has to play in his personal and superhero life. I have really enjoyed the changes he's made to be more efficient and look forward to seeing the new spider-legs incorporated into his costume. Here's hoping that Spidey-Ock sticks around for a long time.

[Kostisfire]

I'm loving this new direction. After OMD, I dropped the adventures of the devil-dealing Spider-Man. I just couldn't relate to a character that preached, Great Power and Great Responsibilty, only to make a deal that flew in the face of everything he stood for. With that said, I have read a few issues and wound up picking ASM #700. The ending was unexpected and really set up Ock with a new mission - become Superior, not just as Spidey but as Peter Parker. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I never thought Ock intended to be "evil", he just let his arrogance get in the way. Once his body became fused to his extra arms, we saw the mental breakdown of a genuis, someone that knew that had wasted their sole opportunity to do good and wouldn't get another chance because of the miscalculation he had made.

The ability to transfer minds gave him back his youth and a better body to accomplish his goals. I hope that this story allows for the humanization of Doc Ock a little and that he begins to learn about the role Great Power and Great Responsibiltiy has to play in his personal and superhero life. I have really enjoyed the changes he's made to be more efficient and look forward to seeing the new spider-legs incorporated into his costume. Here's hoping that Spidey-Ock sticks around for a long time.

Exactly! Even Deadpool resisted from making a deal with Mephisto, fricking Deadpool! The guy is crazier than Norman and he still resisted! OMD was a major clusterfuck. Had Peter done that to save MJ and his child I could accept it. But he did that deal to save his aunt that is basically around 90 years old? Come on! As for Ock i never saw him a quite an evil guy. More like a man with a problem.He was an abused child, an abused adult and when he found happiness his mother destroyed everything again. Superior is chance to redeem Ock and make Pete a respectful hero again. As i said in my previous post Pete made the ultimate sacrifice. He let Ock have his life to teach him a lesson. I think he could still kill him if he wanted but instead he chose to make him understand his motto. Pete is the ultimate hero (excluding OMD) and true heroes don't want super funerals and people to mourn them. They want to help people even in death, something Pete achieved. And let's face it, Ock has been doing some great things lately.

I guess i defend this change so much because it serves two purposes as i said above. And because most fans (especially comicvine members) go all: Slott is a fat sob and i hope he dies! When you spend an hour a day to post about how much Slott sucks roughly 8 months after spidey 700 you need to lay back and rethink what you're doing. Look, if you read the thing and didn't like it fine. Read other books.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Kostisfire

[monkeycrumb]

I'm just really curious where this is going to finally resolve, I don't want this to be status quo forever, but I really like this version of Spider-Man. But I also want Peter Parker back at some point. What will happen to Doctor Octopus once Peter comes back?

Expect everything to be close to back to Status Quo by the time the new movie releases. Marvel always gets things as close as possible to the movie cast for the influx of new readers. Expect stories to feature Peter, Rhino & Electro. Probably not Gwen.

[Kostisfire]

I'm just really curious where this is going to finally resolve, I don't want this to be status quo forever, but I really like this version of Spider-Man. But I also want Peter Parker back at some point. What will happen to Doctor Octopus once Peter comes back?

Expect everything to be close to back to Status Quo by the time the new movie releases. Marvel always gets things as close as possible to the movie cast for the influx of new readers. Expect stories to feature Peter, Rhino & Electro. Probably not Gwen.

I don't think that will be the case with Ock. In every Q&A they have said that Pete is never coming back and Ock is here to stay. Obviously that's a lie but i doubt they'd be such fools. "Yeah, we said never but we meant like for a year! Yeah, Peter was absent for a year, i mean, in comic book time that's the equilavent of never, right?". That'd be awful. I want to see a company stick to their promise. They could release a prequel with Pete, like a miniseries, kinda like how they did with wolvie this year (they released a miniseries where he goes up against the hand and sabretooth). They don't treat the movies with other studios the same way they treat their "own" movies. They give a nod to the other movies so they will have electro and rhino stories but i doubt Pete will be back by next year. Technically though, Pete's body is still there so a new reader will pick it up and won't notice anything if he hasn't read the previous issues. And from what i've seen, as of #14, Ock has stopped reffering to himself all the time.

[Rad]

Possibly spoiler-riffic. So if you're reading trades look away... NOW!

Has anyone seen an explanation anywhere for why Superior Spidey's suit is slowly morphing into a version of Miles Morales's suit?
I'm sure it's out there somewhere, but Slott's not mentioned it on his twitter feed. Loved seeing the return of the tentacles in last weeks ish.
Had to be done really, didn't it.

[Kostisfire]

Possibly spoiler-riffic. So if you're reading trades look away... NOW!

Has anyone seen an explanation anywhere for why Superior Spidey's suit is slowly morphing into a version of Miles Morales's suit?

I'm sure it's out there somewhere, but Slott's not mentioned it on his twitter feed. Loved seeing the return of the tentacles in last weeks ish.

Had to be done really, didn't it.

In the last page of issue 13 he orders some minions and when asked if he'd like a new suit he replies yes. The suit is heavily inspired from Alex Ross's design so i wouldn't say it has anything to do with Miles. Some changes for both Miles and strangely for Peter will occur in issue 200 of ultimate spider-man so we'll have to wait and see. there's also the arms of the octopus mini series in which doc ock somehow returns so i bet we'll get a new twist.

[Rad]

Cheers Kostis,

I have an appalling memory, although I do recall the minions.

You don't think the suit's reminiscent of Miles' suit?

[Kostisfire]

Cheers Kostis,

I have an appalling memory, although I do recall the minions.

You don't think the suit's reminiscent of Miles' suit?

It is, but both are heavily influenced from the Ross design.

[mcg031]

You think the minimate will have tentacles?