Lost in Space

[DSTZach]

Dear Monkeycrumb: Minimates are niche. Lost in Space is niche. Collectible toys are niche!

We know that a B&W set is not a color set. We also know that not all fans want a B&W set. We know that a color set would very likely sell more. But we can still look at how well a con-exclusive, limited, B&W set sells, and translate those numbers -- not directly, but we can certainly get a sense through some simple math. Chuck has formulas in his head for pretty much any product scenario that you can think of. He kinda does this for a living.

Nobody is blaming LiS for being black-and-white. We're just not planning on doing more than we've said we would do (at the moment) because we have concerns about sell-through. There was never a four-pack that got shelved because of this. There will, however, be another two-pack.

If DST is having a hard time getting the Star Trek line continuing, I don't see how LiS will get off the ground beyond a one and done pack of some sort.

SlushyFrog seems to be able to do math just fine.

...Onyx did have a really good idea, though.

[monkeycrumb]

Why did the Clerks set sell out again??? You need to move on, your rambling isn't doing anything positive. Ask DST, that may actually help you. Like Chuck doesn't know how to do his job? He, at least in my opinion, is churning out Marvel, TWD is doing well, ST looks great, oh yeah then there is TR, and Aliens, but your complaining about LiS. Not everyone can be pleased, but not everyone always complains. Just think is this post really necessary.

Wow. Rude much? Is your post really necessary? Since, you're the authority on it and all. Then you went on to say " I personally don't own any B&W and probably won't, just my preference.", so thanks for proving my point. As for Clerks selling out, between what MisterPL said AND having a Facebook photo of Jason Mewes showcasing the product, that tends to help too.

My point, and what I've been saying all along, is that when people are talking about any license not selling well, I'm saying maybe someone should look at the product because sometimes there's blame with the end product as well, and it's not always the license. But hey, I guess I need to ramble the point because I don't see anyone else here making it. I guess there's no point in having a discussion board since what we're expected to do is just sing DST's praises, since Zak Katz doesn't like negativity.

Dear Monkeycrumb: Minimates are niche. Lost in Space is niche. Collectible toys are niche!

We know that a B&W set is not a color set. We also know that not all fans want a B&W set. We know that a color set would very likely sell more. But we can still look at how well a con-exclusive, limited, B&W set sells, and translate those numbers -- not directly, but we can certainly get a sense through some simple math. Chuck has formulas in his head for pretty much any product scenario that you can think of. He kinda does this for a living.

Nobody is blaming LiS for being black-and-white. We're just not planning on doing more than we've said we would do (at the moment) because we have concerns about sell-through. There was never a four-pack that got shelved because of this. There will, however, be another two-pack.

Zach, that's the firmest confirmation we've heard about a 2nd 2-pack. Every statement up until now has been "if"'s and "maybe"'s. And I never said anything about a cancelled 4-pack. It sounded like every statement up until just now sounded like you guys were likely giving up after the SDCC pack.

[monkeycrumb]

And fine, B&W are the nichest of the niche of our niche little corner.

[DSTZach]

The four-pack was hypothetical. You were crying foul on us not having faith in LIS and not continuing the line, when 1. we never said we were going to continue the line, and 2. we never said we WEREN'T going to continue the line. But I'm really not trying to argue anything, just defend the decisions we made. And we are making a color two-pack. We'll announce it next week.

Oh, and Jay and Bob sold out (at our booth, anyway) before I even posted that picture of Jason Mewes on Facebook. Before that, I promoted both sets about equally, so it's not a bad comparison to LIS, actually. Both sets of characters started out in black and white, then were in color after that, but Jay-Bob's black-and-white preview set sold out while the LIS one lingered. So we can say definitively that Jay and Silent Bob are a more popular property than LIS -- at least with convention-goers, presumably due to their current relevance and cons being a young person's game. Kevin Smith packed Hall H at SDCC, I believe; I was not aware of any LIS presence.

But any example anyone want to give of bad Minimates product causing poor sales for an otherwise popular license, I'm ready to be educated.

[monkeycrumb]

A full assortment was never in the cards, even before SDCC. That said, if the set had performed better, maybe we would have reconsidered. Chuck has stated that the license was primarily acquired to make robot stuff.

This post was what I was referring to, Zach.

And if you really want to know about bad product hurting sales, how about some of the 1-star ratings from ToysRUs.com citing pieces that constantly fall off?

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11873303&prodFindSrc=rv#showReviews

"Comments about Halo

Reach Minimates Action Figures - LAAG:

Arms and legs come off"

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11318764&prodFindSrc=rv#showReviewshttp://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11318764&prodFindSrc=rv#showReviews

Comments

about Diamond 1001810 Universal Monsters Minimates Wave 2 Action Figures -

Franken and Henry:

They

are very tiny (1 1/2 inches long). They are made up of segmented pieces. When I

opened up the packages 2 of the 6 mini mates had pieces that had already fallen

off in the package. I had to glue them because their feet wouldn't stay on. My

son loves all of the Universal Monsters and loves action figures. He was

happy... I was not. They were on clearance when I bought them and I still don't

think they were worth that price.

Plus I recall another review for the Dracula 2-pack that has similar reviews. And the Creature had it even worse with parts that wouldn't stay on.

And yet DST has made claims about poor-selling UM product, when other companies continue to put out UM product, including DST still.

[stack32]

A

full assortment was never in the cards, even before SDCC. That said, if

the set had performed better, maybe we would have reconsidered. Chuck

has stated that the license was primarily acquired to make robot stuff.

This post was what I was referring to, Zach.

And if you really want to know about bad product hurting sales, how about

some of the 1-star ratings from ToysRUs.com citing pieces that

constantly fall off?

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11873303&prodFindSrc=rv#showReviews

"Comments about Halo Reach Minimates Action Figures - LAAG:

Arms and legs come off"

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11318764&prodFindSrc=rv#showReviewshttp://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11318764&prodFindSrc=rv#showReviews

Comments

about Diamond 1001810 Universal Monsters Minimates Wave 2 Action Figures -

Franken and Henry:

They are very tiny (1 1/2 inches long). They are made up of segmented pieces. When I

opened up the packages 2 of the 6 mini mates had pieces that had already fallen

off in the package. I had to glue them because their feet wouldn't stay on. My

son loves all of the Universal Monsters and loves action figures. He was

happy... I was not. They were on clearance when I bought them and I still don't

think they were worth that price.

Plus

I recall another review for the Dracula 2-pack that has similar

reviews. And the Creature had it even worse with parts that wouldn't

stay on.

And yet DST has made claims about poor-selling

UM product, when other companies continue to put out UM product,

including DST still.

You're citing reviews from people that obviously don't realize what minimates are as proof of bad product hurting sales?

Edited August 9, 2013 by stack32

[youbastards]

Toys R Us' website in itself is detrimental to Minimates sales.

[monkeycrumb]

You're citing reviews from people that obviously don't realize what minimates are as proof of bad product hurting sales?

When the person says the parts won't stay on, that's a problem. I've had many like that myself.

The UM line largely struck me as being made when the main tooling was in need of replacement (as they do every few years since molds wear out), and the feet and hands were notorious for falling out constantly. They are not as tightly held together as other minimates. I have thousands of minimates and I can easily tell the difference between the quality and non-quality ones.

And you do realize DST needs to sell to more than just the board members here, right? Just because they are meant to be taken apart isn't the same as constantly falling apart.

Toys R Us' website in itself is detrimental to Minimates sales.

Agreed. But Zach asked to be "educated".

[stack32]

What I realize is that those people were likely a lost cause since they had different expectations than any minimate, perfect quality or not, was going to deliver. That's probably why no one has marked the reviews as helpful. I can't imagine they had a noticeable impact on sales, but then I think quality was a much smaller issue than the overall popularity of Universal Monsters, so obviously we disagree.

[monkeycrumb]

What I realize is that those people were likely a lost cause since they had different expectations than any minimate, perfect quality or not, was going to deliver. That's probably why no one has marked the reviews as helpful. I can't imagine they had a noticeable impact on sales, but then I think quality was a much smaller issue than the overall popularity of Universal Monsters, so obviously we disagree.

You're hypothesizing here. And if you want to argue over the popularity of UM, then why is DST continuing with UM product? Banks, figures, Mego-style figures, etc. And Mezco, and other companies as well. Yep, not popular, huh? Again, attack the license and ignore that it still sells in other formats. I know you want to argue down every example I give you regardless of reality. So why don't you go ask people how happy they are with that Spiderman Friends & Foes set? And did you not read that the reviews I posted also included Halo? No, you just ignore everything else and hone in on UM. Halo also suffered bad engineering and fell apart quite easily.

What really pisses me off is that no one is willing to consider that maybe it's the product in some cases, not the license that caused sales not to live up to expectations, whether it's the case ratios, engineering, character choices, deco, whatever. I'm not saying this is the case every time. But we're a discussion board, and yet no one is willing to discuss this possibility. And people are quick to point their finger in any direction BUT DST's. Last I checked (granted I didn't do a full physical exam), DST is run by people. People aren't perfect. People can make mistakes. It's when they stick their heads in the sand and refuse to even entertain the notion that maybe someone somewhere made a mistake that prevents anyone from learning. I don't expect the company reps to come right out and admit fault, but the apologists here are practically falling over themselves to clear DST of any fault whatsoever.

That is what I'm saying. That is what I've been saying.

But for a discussion board, I get the impression that some topics just aren't up for discussion around here.

[Shanester]

No need to get excited. Things are getting unnecessarily heated in this thread.

But for a discussion board, I get the impression that some topics just aren't up for discussion around here.

No politics, no religion. Anything else is up for discussion within reason.

[monkeycrumb]

No need to get excited. Things are getting unnecessarily heated in this thread.

But for a discussion board, I get the impression that some topics just aren't up for discussion around here.

No politics, no religion. Anything else is up for discussion within reason.

I was referring to the unwillingness to fault DST for anything however trivial. Unless faith in DST is a religion Then, Lord knows I do frequently sing their praises. I just hate the whole "throw the baby out with the bathwater" mentality, wherever it comes from.

I'll go and say 9 Hail DST's now.

Edited August 9, 2013 by monkeycrumb

[DSTZach]

A full assortment was never in the cards, yes. It was never and it still is not. But I never said we wouldn't make other, one-off Minimates products. And if the set had done gangbusters -- a one-off B&W set, mind you -- we might have said, "Hey, we've really got something here."

And yes, sometimes a Minimate has feet that have trouble staying on, due to the weight of the shoe or a problem with the peg -- I don't think that is a shocking revelation for anybody here. But that's happened with a variety of Minimates lines, and some of them are strong sellers. Others are not. If those online reviews are leading people to not buy them at brick-and-mortar TRUs, I would be fairly surprised. You can't see "loose feet" in the package, and I get plenty of moms telling me their kids love Minimates in the same breath as saying they constantly lose the pieces.

Others have blamed poor UM sales on the overlap with specialty, or a lack of accessories -- I'd give more credence to those theories than to loose feet. I'm definitely not going to say that the license is to blame for UM not selling -- I don't want to make Mystery Man cry -- but maybe it's just not a good fit for Minimates? Not that they don't look great, but the 7" figures sell well, while Minimates seemed to linger. It might just be that monster collectors prefer detail and realism (my general finding on the monster boards) and kids just don't have a lot of monster media to get them excited. I thought Hotel Transylvania would help, but I don't think its success translated to toys -- Lego seems to be walking away from Monster Hunters, as well.

Just my thoughts.

EDIT: DST is not perfect, I don't think we ever claimed to be. I was just surprised to see the product flaw that got singled out was "loose feet". And the Spidey Friends and Foes drum is an old one.

...Monkeycrumb, why is your icon a Squinky? I'm sure it has no relevance here, I'm just wondering.

Edited August 9, 2013 by DSTZach

[battlecat]

IF we're lucky (and I hope we are) we'll get a color set 2-pack. Now, will we get Dr Smith in color? likely not, as Chuck said he wanted to make "the boy".

I'm guessing the color 2-pack will be Smith & Robot again, they already showed color prototypes of them (Toy Fair I think?).

[monkeycrumb]

Lego seems to be walking away from Monster Hunters, as well.

Just my thoughts.

EDIT: DST is not perfect, I don't think we ever claimed to be. I was just surprised to see the product flaw that got singled out was "loose feet". And the Spidey Friends and Foes drum is an old one.

...Monkeycrumb, why is your icon a Squinky? I'm sure it has no relevance here, I'm just wondering.

Lego is renowned for doing one wave and done of their themes. They were incredibly successful with their Monster Fighters line, including at $179.99 Haunted Mansion set which is really sweet. But their one-and-done wave approach is just how they do business, and never really indicative of the market itself. (sure there are exceptions, but overall)

I really don't want to get too far off topic again with UM, but my feeling was that the market was a bit oversaturated between TRU & LCS. The TRU exclusives sold out, including the Mummy wave that wound up unintentionally exclusive. But the trope of it being due to the license has been brought out many times. I really liked them, the minimates actually made me into a UM fan. But the mainstream reviews weren't glowing. I was buying them in droves, but they are not the same quality compared to other minimates, and I always thought it was due to the molds nearing their end of life for the main body parts. I don't want to call them bad, but you asked for an example, I gave you a few, including Halo. And the Spidey Friends and Foes comment wasn't directed at you. Interesting that you don't think online reviews count for much regarding those TRU reviews. I'm very happy to hear what the moms are telling you about their kids loving minimates.

And my icon is a squinkie since just before the Kang minimate was officially announced and right after Chuck hinted heavily at it coming. I just haven't bothered to change it yet. It's due to the character, not the brand of toys

[Shanester]

I think the guys at DST know they have made errors and have been pretty forthcoming about it. I also think Zach is awfully accomodating to us all here. I am not ass kissing, but sometimes I wonder if a few of you know what its like at the DC/WB boards, or the Mattel boards, where hardly any company involvement occurs. I wonder if any of the complainers ever tried to talk seriously with a company rep like Georg Brewer who acted like we had some kind of plague and he did his best to escape our presence. We are fortunate to have DST guys here talking to us and answering our queries.

Also, the only subjects prohibited here have been put forth. If you feel attacked or prevented from discussing any other subjects (especially toys or collectibles), please let the staff know about it. We don't harbor bullies and I want to know if any exist here.

Another thing...heated discussions are allowed, just don't fall into the trap of making it personal. Its easy to do, but don't give in to it.

[MisterPL]

I wonder if any of the complainers ever tried to talk seriously with a company rep like Georg Brewer who acted like we had some kind of plague and he did his best to escape our presence. We are fortunate to have DST guys here talking to us and answering our queries.

Brewer... The Anti-Oat!

I never corresponded with Mr. Brewer directly but he did mention my screen name once during a podcast (in a positive way, believe it or not). He'd make a point of insisting that he was reading what we were posting on the now-defunct DC Direct message board but never ever came to interact. So I have nothing but appreciation for DST's presence here. In fact it was Digger's online presence way back in the day that got me to sign up for the AA message boards and it was Zach's presence here that got me to return to the Multiverse after an extended hiatus.

I'll admit to taking full advantage of bending the virtual ear of any representative I come into contact with BECAUSE it so rarely happens with collectibles I give a shit about. I love that Chuck takes the time to answer a lot of the same damned questions over and over again, even when the answers aren't what I hoped to read. I love that Zach's here putting up with our incessant crap and continues to come back for more, usually redirecting any negativity with his kick-ass photography of upcoming releases.

Not that anyone's asking me to but I won't apologize for asking "Why?" or calling shenanigans when the answer doesn't add up. I'm curious that way and I hope my tenacity doesn't come across as bullying or anything negative. (After all, we're talking fun toys here.)

So, yeah: Lost in Space needs a Minimate 5-pack:

Male Spacesuit Body with alternate heads for John and Don

Female Spacesuit Body with alternate heads for Maureen and Judy

Unisex Child Body for Will and Penny

Dr. Smith in military uniform

and in the underlying tray the parts to build the B-9 Robot, the perfect way to emphasize the Minimates play pattern!

Throw in some ray runs and I'll shut up for a while.

[Shanester]

MPL gets it...

[winkerbean]

Throw in some ray runs and I'll shut up for a while.

Ray runs

[MisterPL]

Ruh-roh.

[DSTZach]

In fact it was Digger's online presence way back in the day that got me to sign up for the AA message boards and it was Zach's presence here that got me to return to the Multiverse after an extended hiatus.

What hath Zach wrought?

Lego is renowned for doing one wave and done of their themes. They were incredibly successful with their Monster Fighters line, including at $179.99 Haunted Mansion set which is really sweet. But their one-and-done wave approach is just how they do business, and never really indicative of the market itself. (sure there are exceptions, but overall)

If they're renowned for one-and-done, why are we reviled for one-and-done? I know a two-pack or a vehicle is not the equivalent of a full assortment of construction sets, but that's the difference between DST and Lego. They have a few dozen retail stores, eight video games, two theme parks and a feature film. We operate on a slightly smaller scale. And if we gave every license the full court press, we'd never have gotten around to half the licenses we've done (and probably lost a lot of money on The Spirit line).

I really don't want to get too far off topic again with UM, but my feeling was that the market was a bit oversaturated between TRU & LCS. The TRU exclusives sold out, including the Mummy wave that wound up unintentionally exclusive. But the trope of it being due to the license has been brought out many times. I really liked them, the minimates actually made me into a UM fan. But the mainstream reviews weren't glowing. I was buying them in droves, but they are not the same quality compared to other minimates, and I always thought it was due to the molds nearing their end of life for the main body parts. I don't want to call them bad, but you asked for an example, I gave you a few, including Halo. And the Spidey Friends and Foes comment wasn't directed at you. Interesting that you don't think online reviews count for much regarding those TRU reviews.

I said I didn't think online reviews affected sell-through at brick and mortar stores -- Minimates are not exactly a "let's make a plan to get Junior a two-pack for Christmas" item, so I don't think there's a ton of online research being done on them before a shopping trip to a physical store. Do they affect online sales to new customers, who don't know that the pieces come off? Maybe. But I doubt they'd affect collectors or the parents of collectors.

And by "oversaturated," are you saying should we have made less to sell to fewer customers (due to QC losses or a pure lack of interest), or are you talking about the duplication of characters? Because I don't know how we could have handled the breakdown differently. There had to be some tool sharing between TRU and specialty to make the line feasible, just like with the Marvel waves -- the only difference was that specialty had four-packs, not two-packs. What we put at TRU was meant to appeal to casual fans, while what we put at specialty was meant to appeal to people who wanted to go deeper into the films. I don't know how else we could have split them up, aside from putting an all-black-and-white set in one outlet (sure death, in your eyes) and an all-color set in another. Although I'm pretty sure the black-and-white two-packs sold the best of all; I've rarely seen one in the wild.

Edited August 10, 2013 by DSTZach

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Good point, Zach. When is the Minimate theme park set to open?

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Color pics up on the Facebook page and on this site: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/gamereport/awesome_stuff_exclusive_lost_minimates_dYFDHD1RVSpPF9DP8ICGPI#axzz2blOP7ULN

Can't wait to get this guys in color.

[MisterPL]

I'd buy that for $9.99! Sold!

I see they're saving "the boy" for the inevitable boxed set! Good move.

[MisterPL]

Packaging shots are up at ArtAsylum.com. Loving the colored versions. This set is a must-have for me.