AGENT 88 KICKSTARTER MINIMATES

[youbastards]

In the event this truly goes south, I would love to see DST step in and do something for the backers that chose the Minimates packages. By no means do I think they are obligated to do so, but some type of 'good faith' on DST's part would go a long way to healing the bruises left from Digger's experiment.

Edited December 6, 2013 by youbastards

[hellpop]

I'm sure Chuck is probably pretty embarrassed by this. We know that he did Digger a favor by agreeing to produce these, and if the holdup really is only because Digger hasn't delivered the materials needed to get these into production, well, that's really a betrayal. I agree, DST doesn't have to do anything, but it almost seems like they should if only to protect their good name.

[TM2 Dinobot]

Honestly though, this isn't DST's problem; they're just a company. It's ours. It needs to be Digger's.

[Fujis]

I imagine it's more of a monetary issue for Digger at this point. He spent all the money on finishing the project and now simply can't afford to get the rewards produced - Minimates or otherwise. I don't see how DST is in any way culpable here though. I'm sure they agreed to a reduced production price given Digger's relationship with the company but at the end of the day Digger was just hiring them to produce a product. It is a shame that Kickstarter can't intervene somehow. I assumed that the agreement was in some way legally binding, being that a creator simply had to deliver on the rewards promised. I will definitely be more careful in the future with funding projects and I certainly won't be backing any more of Digger's projects on Kickstarter or elsewhere.

[pinoyminimate]

Here are some interesting articles on how one person sued a Kickstarter project owner...

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-one-stupid-mistake-and-35000-from-kickstarter-made-an-average-guy-bankrupt-2013-1

So I wonder, is there an L.A. lawyer among the backers?

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Better call Saul.

[youbastards]

Honestly though, this isn't DST's problem; they're just a company. It's ours. It needs to be Digger's.

Right, I totally agree that it's not DST's problem to resolve, but at the same time they agreed to let their brand be used to promote a project that was successfully funded, partially because their brand was associated with the project. The Agent 88 idea itself wasn't what prompted many (most?...all?) of us to support this project, it was the implied exclusivity of the reward Minimates. If Digger has decided to give up on this project (which the link BHM posted a page back seems to indicate if he abandoned the trademark), then it would be a nice gesture on DST's part to do something for the fans that supported the Minimates brand. I'm not saying they need to cover the production costs of the Agent 88 'mates as Digger originally intended, but some gesture would at least make me feel like it wasn't all for nothing.

I imagine it's more of a monetary issue for Digger at this point. He spent all the money on finishing the project and now simply can't afford to get the rewards produced - Minimates or otherwise.

This.

Better call Saul.

LOL

So according to the US Patent and Trademark Office, the applicant has 2 months from the date of abandonment (in our case January 4th) to petition to revive the application.

Applicant Does Not Timely File Statement of Use or Extension Request

If the applicant does not file a statement of use or extension request within six (6) months from the date the notice of allowance issued, the application is abandoned (no longer pending/under consideration for approval). To continue the application process, the applicant must file a petition to revive the application within two (2) months of the abandonment date.

[buttheadsmate]

THE AGENT 88 CAPTION CONTEST: Prizes to be announced .....er....one day.

What's Agent 88 saying ?

My entry:

" .....& buttheadsmate goes on to say...... in any event go fuck yourself "

Edited December 6, 2013 by buttheadsmate

[youbastards]

My entry:

Kay: "Digger, this note was just given to me by Peter Mayhew."

Note: "Episode 7 is officially happening, I'm outta here, bitches!"

[TM2 Dinobot]

Honestly though, this isn't DST's problem; they're just a company. It's ours. It needs to be Digger's.

Right, I totally agree that it's not DST's problem to resolve, but at the same time they agreed to let their brand be used to promote a project that was successfully funded, partially because their brand was associated with the project. The Agent 88 idea itself wasn't what prompted many (most?...all?) of us to support this project, it was the implied exclusivity of the reward Minimates. If Digger has decided to give up on this project (which the link BHM posted a page back seems to indicate if he abandoned the trademark), then it would be a nice gesture on DST's part to do something for the fans that supported the Minimates brand. I'm not saying they need to cover the production costs of the Agent 88 'mates as Digger originally intended, but some gesture would at least make me feel like it wasn't all for nothing.

Okay, yes. However this is, from DST's POV, no different than any other line we've seen concept art for and it didn't pan out. Doctor Who, or more accurately, iRobot. This is pretty much the "iRobot kickstarter", which I don't think that or DW hurt DST's brand reputation. The only difference here is that Digger took money to produce the designs and ran. DST did the designs, and if an order is never places, they can't do anything. Their job is done. They don't have the rights to actually do anything without Digger. If they tried, they'd actually be doing something illegal too, and be in even more trouble than Digger is for IP infringement. Just like if they started doing Doctor Who mates without a work order being placed. They'd be sued big time.

But I do understand what you're saying. Like if they had some red or gold 88's sitting around and just sent all the backers one or something. But in reality, not everyone that backed in on this board. This was never a Minimate project, this was a Kickstarter project with Kickstarter people. What do you think DST should do about the people who didn't get an art book, go into the publishing business? This is an awful, terrible situation. And it's difficult to see from out perspective on the board, but it is also much bigger than Minimates, a relatively obscure toy brand that few people care about.

I think it would be nice, when they got official word, if DST issued a statement of some kind. "We are very sorry this happened. We are as shocked as you. Please continue to enjoy Minimates. Please seek a resolution through proper legal channels."

Nice new tag line, BHM.

[Shanester]

DST has nothing to do with this. They agreed to produce product for a client and the client has disappeared. We did not get promise of delivery from DST. I do not fault DST in the least and would recommend they do what they have done all along...stay out of it.

[youbastards]

They don't have the rights to actually do anything without Digger. If they tried, they'd actually be doing something illegal too, and be in even more trouble than Digger is for IP infringement.

I'm not suggesting they produce the Agent 88 'mates.

I'd be happy with a polybagged promo with a sad face that said "Sorry you got porked by Digger." on the chestpiece.

[TM2 Dinobot]

DST has nothing to do with this. They agreed to produce product for a client and the client has disappeared. We did not get promise of delivery from DST. I do not fault DST in the least and would recommend they do what they have done all along...stay out of it.

Pretty much this!

Although... If we got a MMMV cube world blank, I don't think anyone would object.

[hellpop]

I'm also not saying that DST should go ahead and make the Agent 88 Minimates without Digger, as they are under no obligation to do so. But I think sending out a promo or something to the people that paid money for an item they agreed to produce as a gesture of good faith would be a good thing to do. Dino, this is NOTHING like any other cancelled item, because people paid money upfront that they are unable to reclaim. That's never happened before. It may be no fault of their own, but DST did allow their intellectual property to be used as a fundraising incentive, so there is some small bit of culpability there.

[TM2 Dinobot]

Without knowing the exact legal contract, this could easily be like every other canceled item. Digger could have said "Hey, I want to do this." and DST went "Okay, get us the money, place and order and we'll do it." It wasn't necessarily that DST let their property be used, but more that they were working as Art Asylum, being the production company like for Thundercats and C3. Again, we don't know, and we will most likely never know. But I don't hold DST responsible in the least, let alone culpable.

If anything, this is like Shocker Toys, but in reverse. Though I will say that, unlike Shocker, I don't believe Digger had any intention do deceive or rip off. I think he's just a flake. But YMMV.

Edited December 6, 2013 by TM2 Dinobot

[buttheadsmate]

I assumed ....& I thought that I'd read this (?) ......that DST was helping Digger as some sort of honour/promise made from days gone by when he left Minimates behind. If I'm wrong then I'll hold my hands up & say "I'm wrong" . From my angle I see no blame that can be laid at DST's door ,I do however detect some naivete .

Maybe I'm acting like judge & jury but by far the most infuriating thing for me is the utter contempt Digger is showing to the folks on this little forum.

[Mattallica]

so i've continued to "pester" the higher-ups connected with the production of the A88 "film", with no response from any of them,

however today i received this from digger via the "contact me" link on the Kickstarter page

"Digger T Mesch
says:

Hi Matt,

A number of the rewards have already gone out, however the Minimates
are still held up in production. We are working with Diamond to get back
on track.

We'll post as soon as we know something.

Hang in there....

-Jan and Digger"

Seems he is still trying to lay this in DSTs lap

Edited December 6, 2013 by Mattallica

[Mini-yosko]

Communication is the key. If Digger would have just kept us in the loop and continued to post here, we would give him the benefit of the doubt. But that is not what he has done. He used us and this board to get his project off the ground and then has disappeared. That's what makes it seem so shady. He completely altered his behavior and has avoided this site like the plague.

DST has zero responsibility to us. They were going to do Digger a favor, but Digger hasn't held up his part of the deal. Zach has been nice to Digger by not just saying it is 100% up to Digger and they are waiting for him to come through with the designs and cash. I feel bad for the people that paid all that money for custom minimates that Digger could just make himself. Why he won't help those people I will never understand.

[MisterPL]

From what I can tell, DST is getting hosed by this whole thing as well. I'm sure they didn't have a stake in the film aside from being hired to design, manufacture, and possibly distribute the Minimates. If they HAVE been paid then, yes, the problem's on their end.

That doesn't seem to be the case. "Held up in production" could mean DST hasn't seen a cent toward making these things and are waiting until they do. And I wouldn't blame them one bit. I sure as hell wouldn't want to sit on inventory based on someone else's IP without being compensated.

So while it might be nice to imagine DST offering something to folks who got fucked by Digger, keep in mind DST's probably been reamed, too.

[karamazov80]

the utter contempt Digger is showing to the folks on this little forum.

That seemed pretty blatant to me when he first showed up here only to hock his Kickstarter, and promptly left never to return once his goal was met. He used the forum for his own selfish purposes, and that was that. Any further act of disrespect, indifference, contempt, or some mix of the three doesn't surprise me much. Edited December 6, 2013 by karamazov80

[TM2 Dinobot]

Here's the thing about kickstarter. You pay to reach the goal, not for the incentives. Those of us that donated saw our hard earned money pay off when Agent 88 got made. So as far as Kickstarter is concerned, they don't care. Their goals were met. They can't help that we didn't care about it.

Digger showed up here, pimping the minimates in order to water our tasty little buds. I'm not saying he lied, but rather he just knew the right thing to say.

Money was paid for a product, and the product was received. Agent 88. So the whole "We didn't get what we paid for" is not true. That's what keeps getting missed by both Kickstarter and some of us.

Minimates were icing on top of the movie that we loved so much, such a stellar, outstanding idea that we just had to give our money towards. It was such a good idea that it won all kinds of awards and Digger is still on the promotion tour to this day.

EDIT: That last bit may be snark...

Edited December 6, 2013 by TM2 Dinobot

[Lobsterman]

Minimates were icing on top of the movie that we loved so much, such a stellar, outstanding idea that we just had to give our money towards. It was such a good idea that it won all kinds of awards and Digger is still on the promotion tour to this day.

Your Agent 88 fan club t-shirt and membership card are in the mail HAR HAR HAR

[Mattallica]

Here's the thing about kickstarter. You pay to reach the goal, not for the incentives. Those of us that donated saw our hard earned money pay off when Agent 88 got made. So as far as Kickstarter is concerned, they don't care. Their goals were met. They can't help that we didn't care about it.

Digger showed up here, pimping the minimates in order to water our tasty little buds. I'm not saying he lied, but rather he just knew the right thing to say.

Money was paid for a product, and the product was received. Agent 88. So the whole "We didn't get what we paid for" is not true. That's what keeps getting missed by both Kickstarter and some of us.

Minimates were icing on top of the movie that we loved so much, such a stellar, outstanding idea that we just had to give our money towards. It was such a good idea that it won all kinds of awards and Digger is still on the promotion tour to this day.

EDIT: That last bit may be snark...

that is not exactly correct according to their terms of service, Rewards offered Have to be delivered or refunds isssued.

[youbastards]

Direct from Kickstarter's FAQ:

Who is responsible for fulfilling the promises of a project?

It is the responsibility of the project creator to fulfill the promises of their project. Kickstarter reviews projects to ensure they do not violate the project guidelines, however Kickstarter does not investigate a creator's ability to complete their project.

Here's the thing about kickstarter. You pay to reach the goal, not for the incentives. Those of us that donated saw our hard earned money pay off when Agent 88 got made. So as far as Kickstarter is concerned, they don't care. Their goals were met. They can't help that we didn't care about it.

[karamazov80]

Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath expecting a refund from this. If the 'Mates don't happen, then I doubt folks will get anything.