AGENT 88 KICKSTARTER MINIMATES

[Mattallica]

their terms of service require delivery of rewards or refunds so they must have a way to enforce it?

[AdyCarter]

1. Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

   Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.
2. Can Kickstarter refund the money if a project is unable to fulfill?

   No. Kickstarter doesn't issue refunds as transactions are between backers and creators directly. Creators receive all funds (less fees) soon after their campaign ends. Creators have the ability to refund backers through Amazon Payments (for US projects) and Kickstarter (for non-US projects).

You're going to have to go either direct to Digger or down the legal route. Kickstarter themselves won't mediate in a dispute. The difficulty you will have is proving that he IS NOT going to deliver, he can simply state that they will come (eventually) and you can't touch him.

As a veteran of the ShockerWars I can safely say that a small amount of people spamming his twitter and facebook will probably achieve nothing, he'll simply block you. Hate to be the king of the negative zone but you're verging on the point of either having to forget about it and wait it out or launching costly and probably pointless legal action.

[karamazov80]

As a veteran of the ShockerWars. . .Hate to be the king of the negative zone. . .

Man, you make this sound extremely exciting. I want to read a comic mini-series about your experiences!

[pinoyminimate]

It says "...legal action on behalf of your backers."

Does this refer to KS taking legal actions?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you get a response from any of them? I get the feeling that even the actors and artists never got paid anything.

Hmmm its still showing it there for me.?

I just reposted it and tagged the actors and DST as well as Digger

Edited November 28, 2013 by pinoyminimate

[AdyCarter]

It says "...legal action on behalf of your backers."

Does this refer to KS taking legal actions?

My understanding is that legal action would be taken on "behalf of your backers" by whichever lawyer was hired (by the backers(s))to take legal action on the backers behalf.

There have been some reasonably high profile Kickstarter failures that generated more interest than this ever would and I'm pretty certain KS didn't sue anyone.

[Mattallica]

well at the very least i would think we could eliminate the chance of him using kickstarter in the future to fund his projects. its better to help others, that may be scammed in the future, than to do nothing.

[dr baghead]

I’m disappointed by Kickstarters rules.

I didn’t back Digger but I like Kickstarter and have backed a few things, I always assumed they (since they’re Amazon.com and all) had some means to FORCE people to dole out rewards or refunds thus preventing scam artist from using the site.

There is literally nothing other than the people saying “Hey, this guy is an asshole” preventing Shocker (I’m sorry “JBJR Toys” with it’s fake SOTA Street Fighter logo) from starting another Kickstarter and just up and stealing people’s money... and assholes who love to “support the little guys (unaware they’re doing so through one of the biggest corporations on earth)” are just as likely to kick in a small amount, even just a dollar, because "people can change! stop being so negative because he made mistakes in the past! he’s trying to do better now!"

What’s worse is Digger probably can get around the “ruin your name” threat Kickstarter makes since he DID complete his project, just because no one wants to watch “Agent 88” doesn’t mean he didn’t film and send out download codes for it... If he starts another Kickstarter he CAN say he completed Agent 88, post links to clips or pull quotes from reviews, people can complain all they want they never got toys, but idiots on Kickstart will just say “he wasn’t making toys, he was making a MOVIE, which you got!!! Here’s $5!"

I’m just pissed and sad Kickstarter’s Amazon.com’s only way to enforce the terms of service is to say “people will be mad at you!” the threat of legal action is only there to scare the real “little guys” the guys who want to sell a comic or t-shirt or little card game or something and have NO IDEA how the courts work and think they actually could loose everything. People with any sort of business savy know it’d cost so much to get a lawyer and be so time consuming to build a case no one would actually sue them.

This however does give me a get-“rich”-quick scheme!

Step 1: Start Kickstarter claiming to have created using existing patients an affordable, portable air/water purify perfect for the developing world... but I need money for manufacturing (done in the USA, all “green”) and licensing patients

Step 2: Make goal “low” like $10,000

Step 3: offer easy to make cheaply “thank yous”, post cards, stickers, and t-shirts

Step 4: offer big ticket rewards to help reach my goal like “trip to see a village where pump is being set up” or “DVD of short documentary about villagers who’s life is improved by your help"

Step 5: wait a year

Step 6: mail out the shittiest shirts, post cards, and stickers very little money can buy. post thanks on facebook

Step 7: inform high ticket bidders a problem with the warlords of village country has prevent Americans from being allowed to visit, the filters DID arrive and are in use, but the camera crew/guest will not be allowed in. As such you can choice to be ‘downgraded’ to a lower prize tier and just get the shirt/sticker/postcard/thanks and have your $30 for the DVD or $500 for the plane trip back (we only need high ticket items to hit “funded with the least amount of backers)... OR we will list you as a super backer and use that money to build MORE filters! Either way they’ll feel they got what they wanted.
Step 8: pocket at least $5,000 for doing nothing. Think up next con.

[buttheadsmate]

Nobody can register a number as a trademark ....& after a little research it seems that 'Agent 88' is also unregistered & I am reliably informed that any attempts to register it would be futile .

Also you may or may not know 'Maxwell Smart ' is 'Agent 86' in the TV series 'Get Smart' & the 2008 movie of the same name produced by Warner Bros. Warner Bros. .....have you heard of them? Big big company that make big big movies & have a big big legal department.

Max's female partner (& wife ) is 'Agent 99' .

"So what?" you're thinking ............wait & see

[Mattallica]

Nobody can register a number as a trademark ....& after a little research it seems that 'Agent 88' is also unregistered & I am reliably informed that any attempts to register it would be futile .

Also you may or may not know 'Maxwell Smart ' is 'Agent 86' in the TV series 'Get Smart' & the 2008 movie of the same name produced by Warner Bros. Warner Bros. .....have you heard of them? Big big company that make big big movies & have a big big legal department.

Max's female partner (& wife ) is 'Agent 99' .

"So what?" you're thinking ............wait & see

I remember when this kickstarter mention of an Agent 88 came to this board i commented " I'd rather have an agent 99 ( and 86 for that matter) then i stupidly went ahead and backed digger anyway.

Rob, you glorious, scheming bastard, what have you got up your sleeve? i cant wait to find out.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Mattallica

[buttheadsmate]

Bastard ? Only when pushed

Read this : http://www.legalforce.com/agent-88-85704787.html

Read it all ,especially the bit about 'abandonment' on the 4th. November 2013 .

[pinoyminimate]

So much for this promise. The only "showering" we got was a pile of cattle manure.

[Nessex]

Well - i was finally asked to provide a mailing address for my Art of 88 book to go to.

The minimates are still delayed according to Digger.

[Glantern]

I love that the message above says: "since bank robbery isn't an option". That's really funny, given that it looks as though he's made off with the money pledged with little plan to actually get anyone their stuff. Seems like robbery to me.

[MisterPL]

http://www.npr.org/2012/06/13/154904198/last-word

[pinoyminimate]

Please do update us when you actually receive the book.

The Minimates delay is very likely on his end, not DST's.

Well - i was finally asked to provide a mailing address for my Art of 88 book to go to.

The minimates are still delayed according to Digger.

[TM2 Dinobot]

Here's an interesting conversation I had with a friend over this. Might be helpful, maybe not.

w: I'm pretty sure that, this being done through Paypal and Kickstarter, there's all kinds of ramifications you can visit on his butt.

"The difficulty you will have is proving that he IS NOT going to deliver, he can simply state that they will come (eventually) and you can't touch him."

I'd dispute that. His Kickstarter listing should have specified a reasonable time for delivery. And even if it didn't, vagueness in a contract is supposed to work in favor of the person signing it, not the creator of the contract... i.e., If he didn't designate a delivery time, the people who gave him money get to decide when they're done giving him the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't get to go "...someday" and troll people forever.

So, maybe Paypal? Except Kickstarter goes through Amazon, not Paypal. I don't know. Just a few thoughts from my friend.

[pinoyminimate]

A friend of mine suggested these ideas...

Post comments on the Kickstarter page:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1460783231/agent-88-the-web-series/comments
This way, KS sees the problem as well.

Also, since CBS featured it, it might also get some attention if the problem was posted as comments there:
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/director-releases-crowd-funded-film-agent-88/#postComments

Lastly, IMDB has Reviews and Message Boards where the public can post opinions:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3119094/

[Mattallica]

anyone on Twitter, this is the Producers account, maybe contact her?

https://twitter.com/HurricaneJan

LinkedIn

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jan-utstein/0/10/564

and her facebook

https://www.facebook.com/jan.utstein

[Mattallica]

FWIW

Mattallica0, Nov 27 15:16 (EST):

It has been well over a year since the project ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1460783231/agent-88-the-web-series
) was funded with no sign of the "Minimates" rewards, upon contacting
the potential manufacturer they have stated that they have not even
started to produce them as they are still waiting on the "Creator" to
supply them with some info. this is unacceptable as said "creator" has
stopped posting updates and seems to have moved on to two or three other
projects that he is developing. please help

Kickstarter Support, Nov 30 12:38 (EST):

Hi Matt,

Thanks
for reaching out and bringing this to our attention. I’m sorry to hear
that backing this project has been a frustrating experience.

Projects
that launch on Kickstarter are often in the early stages of
development. As such, creators will occasionally miss the mark on their
initial estimated completion dates. Delays can occur for any number of
reasons, but they are almost always in order to maintain or improve the
quality of the project’s end result. Still, it’s important to us that
creators communicate this information to backers along the way.

If
you have questions regarding the status of the project, I encourage you
to post a comment, or even reach out to the creator directly using the
“Contact me” link on the project page. Thanks for being a thoughtful
backer and part of the Kickstarter community.

Best,
Natalie

Mattallica0, Nov 30 14:03 (EST):

Due to this
situation with the project creator, and the Kickstarter management teams
unwillingness /lack of help to rectify the situation i will never back
another kickstarter project. you have terms of service stated that
creators MUST follow but you are unable/unwilling to enforce them.

Kickstarter Support, Dec 03 19:20 (EST):

Hi Matt,

We
do our best to give project creators the freedom and support necessary
to bring their new and exciting creative ideas to life. This often means
that when projects launch on Kickstarter they’re in the early stages of
development. Still, we expect that creators will make every effort to
complete the project as promised and keep their backers updated along
the way.

In this case, it looks like it’s been a while since the
project creator posted an update. I reached out on behalf of the
backers, asking that the creator post a project update and reply to any
outstanding messages. I certainly hope that this will motivate the
creator to post an update, and communicate more effectively moving
forward. In any case, we've made a note of this project and the status
will certainly be taken into consideration should the project creator
submit another project.

Thanks for being a member of the Kickstarter community. I hope you hear more from the project creator soon.

Best,
Natalie

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Ok. Sounds like problem solved, then.

[Onyx_6]

Riiiigghhhhttttt ....

[Shanester]

Now that is productive Matt. Thanks for doing the work.

[hellpop]

It sounds like they don't quite understand the problem; it's not that he hasn't produced the project he was raising funds for (the show) but that he hasn't supplied the rewards, and hasn't even turned in the materials to produce them. This is a pretty unique situation, I think, in that you have a segment of people who contributed only for the rewards, and have no interest in whether the project gets made or not.

[pinoyminimate]

This.

I think, in that you have a segment of people who contributed only for the rewards, and have no interest in whether the project gets made or not.

[Mini-yosko]

I think we are pretty much screwed. Digger has little to no incentive to fulfill at this point. This project is going nowhere and he has already moved on. If kickstarter won't help, we are in trouble.