dr baghead Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 MisterPL, on 21 Apr 2014 - 09:01, said: Based on what's pictured here, it includes figures from Mattel, DC Direct, DC Collectibles, LEGO, NECA, Mez-Itz, Funko, Blammoids, Hallmark ornaments, bobble heads, even wooden figures… but no DC Minimates. Well don’t worry, based on your theory they’re all going to loose their licenses to make Batman merch soon since most of the items are Batman 1966 based, and we all know what kind of bad blood associating Adam West with the character can cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 MisterPL, on 21 Apr 2014 - 09:01, said: Based on what's pictured here, it includes figures from Mattel, DC Direct, DC Collectibles, LEGO, NECA, Mez-Itz, Funko, Blammoids, Hallmark ornaments, bobble heads, even wooden figures… but no DC Minimates. Well don’t worry, based on your theory they’re all going to loose their licenses to make Batman merch soon since most of the items are Batman 1966 based, and we all know what kind of bad blood associating Adam West with the character can cause. You're not really paying attention, are you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Aside from that years-spanning lineup of DC Direct action figures, all of those products are current or upcoming. DC Minimates are not. I could have sworn DC Minimates had a DC Direct logo on the packaging. (Hail Ivan!) But I'm sure it was just an oversight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr baghead Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 You're not really paying attention, are you. Am I not? Let’s see... -PlayAlong licenses DC to make C3, has Art Asylum make minimates -DAVE School makes animation based on minimates in which Adam West voices Batman -DC is trying to avoid all campy Batman so this angers them. -DC revokes PlayAlong’s DC license for promoting campy Batman even though they have a whole line of product planned out. (It certainly couldn’t be that product didn’t come out because C3 was poor quality and sold horribly) -Several years later DC Direct contracts DST to make DC minimates for them -Seven (Eight? WGAS?! less then 10) Series in they remember their blood feud with Art Asylum -Cancel DC Minimates Again because they promoted campy Batman -Warner Brothers regains merchandising rights to Batman ’66 -Several companies start making Adam West figures at a time when DC will want people to forgot the campiness that was tDKR’s Bane since they’re trying to build a new Batman franchise again -Mattel, NECA, Funko, DST (again), Mezco, Hot Toys, WB Games, WB Animation, Eaglemoss, and by my count no fewer then seven other companies are going to create the same blood feuds Art Asylum did by reminding people of the greatest Batman who ever lived, and ALL loose their licenses. -Hasbro will pick up the license from Mattel and have it almost IMMEDIATELY revoked when DC realizes the toy company Peter Griffin worked for in early seasons of Family Guy was based in Rhode Island JUST LIKE HASBRO, and who’s the Mayor of Family Guy?! ADAM WEST!!!!!!! -After years and years of waiting fans finally get Batman ’66 on DVD, and Warner Brothers has no choice but to cut all ties with themselves for releasing campy Batman product in a year when they’re trying to promote Ben Affleck as Batman. What point am I missing? I am I solely missing the point minimates weren’t in their little display? Because if that’s the point, please them me why you think they weren’t included. It can’t be because of Adam West Batman because EVERY LOVES ADAM WEST BATMAN!!! That’s as crazy as avoiding the McDonald’s closest to your house because one time those a-holes gave you six chicken nuggets when you only paid for a 5 piece, but LOVING the one closest to your work because they gave you six chicken nuggest when you only paid for a 5 piece! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I think it's the timing you're missing. For decades, no one could manufacture officially licensed product based on the '66 Batman show because there were so many fingers in that pie, from Fox and Warner Bros. to DC Comics and the performers (or estates thereof). Even Greenway Productions and George Barris claimed ownership of aspects fo the show. It was a very twisted pretzel. Back in 1989, Burton successfully rebooted the Batman film franchise with a darker, although not entirely humorless tone that ran through the first sequel, Batman Returns (1992). The following films – Batman Forever (1995) and Batman and Robin (1997) – were big-budget toy commercials mandated by studio bean counters who realized WB made as much (or more) revenue in merchandise as they did in ticket sales. The latter film flopped, largely because of a campy tone harkening back to the show from the sixties. Then there was animation. The Batman cartoon series (1992 – 1995) that took the source material seriously was so successful, it spawned Superman (1996 – 2000), Justice League (2001 – 2006), and Batman Beyond (1999 – 2001) spinoffs. More importantly, those cartoons had successful merchandising programs for Warner Bros. Consumer Products (WBCP). While the studio seemed to know what it was doing in animation, the folks on the live-action side were struggling to come up with a way to reboot both the Batman and Superman film franchises. The only thing Warner knew was that campy was NOT the way to go. Enter Art Asylum. After having a great deal of success with Marvel Minimates, AA went after the DC license through WBCP in late 2002/early 2003. Problem was that the 2" figure category wasn't available but the construction set category was. AA partners with Play Along to create the C3 brand of brick construction sets and releases DC Minimates as accessories in 2004. These figures were based on the popular Justice League cartoon as well as the latest Batman animated series, The Batman (2004 – 2008). Around this time, WB finally came up with a plan to relaunch their keystone DC film properties. Dropping the Batman vs. Superman project in favor of individual films, they started production on Batman Begins (2005), arguably the most realistic, least campy incarnation of the Caped Crusader yet to hit screens. It was in this timeframe that Digger got together with DAVE School to produce Batman: New Times (2005), an animated student video that showcased Batman Minimates and C3 sets and featured the voice of Adam West as Batman. Not only was Adam West the furthest thing from the studio's mind as they were putting finishing touches on their film reboot but one of WBCP's Batman licensees put out a Batman short film without approval from the licensor. That was a huge no-no. This is the kind of thing that, in my professional experience, breaks contracts so I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that someone at WBCP got perturbed enough to drop AA/Play Along as a DC licensee. It's also possible that sales underperformed and The Powers That Be – both WBCP and AA/Play Along – decided not to push the construction set category. But when you look at the long list of minifigures that have been licensed to other manufacturers – just minifigures, not construction sets or other excuses to sell minifigures – it's hard to come up with an excuse as to why DST has never been given the opportunity to license and sell DC Minimates the same way they sell other 'mates. The current deluge of '66 Batman product is irrelevant. There are different players in place at WB and WBCP and even DC, players who understand that there's room for more than one incarnation of the Dark Knight at retail. Right now they're just taking advantage of the opportunity to finally sate the pent-up demand for all that product they couldn't offer for decades. So no, none of the current licensees offering Adam West Batman product are going to get their wrists slapped. They're doing it the right way. Digger did it the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttheadsmate Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 Digger does too much the wrong way . I'm really enjoying this thread & the banter between the two of you (dr baghead -MisterPL ) keep it flowing . I always figured that no-one made any money out of DC 'mates .........plain & simple . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I'm sure AA & DST made money from their deal with DC Direct since it was essentially work-for-hire but even with an inflated retail (two dollars over Marvel's at the time), it apparently still wasn't enough for DCD's top management. C3 was a gamble that obviously didn't pay off. The Minimates were fine. It was the sets themselves that were troublesome. Bad enough collectors who just wanted DC 'mates had to pay those prices but then some sets tended to fall apart. This category is a lot tougher than it looks. I'd just like to see DST get the chance – SOMEDAY – to offer DC Minimates the same way they do with Marvel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanester Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I'd just like to see DST get the chance – SOMEDAY – to offer DC Minimates the same way they do with Marvel. Yep, bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttheadsmate Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 I'm sure AA & DST made money from their deal with DC Direct since it was essentially work-for-hire but even with an inflated retail (two dollars over Marvel's at the time), it apparently still wasn't enough for DCD's top management. ....I [therefore] wonder if DC Direct made [enough] money ? I shan't labour my point but it's odd that if all the parties made money they wouldn't want to make .....er...more ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youbastards Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 If i recall correctly, DC Waves 4-8 lingered for a long time, eventually dropping to around $20 a wave on some online/eBay retailers. Eventually the aftermarket prices started to climb, but there were a lot of clearance prices on full waves before that happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanester Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I am guilty of waiting to buy the latter waves after they dropped in price, which became inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttheadsmate Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 If i recall correctly, DC Waves 4-8 lingered for a long time, eventually dropping to around $20 a wave on some online/eBay retailers. Eventually the aftermarket prices started to climb, but there were a lot of clearance prices on full waves before that happened. DC Mates were produced in the following amounts......Waves 1 to 5 , 6000 sets; Wave 6 , 5400 sets; Wave 7,4500 sets ; & Wave 8 ,3600 sets . Either DC expected interest to wane from an initial flourish or they just cut production numbers to suit ....who knows ? Those are the figures. All I know is that Wave 1 is still a top seller 7 years on & apart from their 'of that era' faces hold up fairly well with today's minimates . I am guilty of waiting to buy the latter waves after they dropped in price, which became inevitable. ....me too ......... I pigged out on the JLA characters ....& to this day I still buy Pocket Heroes JLA tables when they're cheap ( <$20) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Shakespeare Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I am guilty of waiting to buy the latter waves after they dropped in price, which became inevitable. There you have it folks, Shane and BHM killed DC minimates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Like I've said before, even my LCS owner balked at the retail and lowered it himself knowing they wouldn't move at $2 over what other sets were. So either DCD was looking for a ridiculously high margin or the business model with AA/DST wasn't as cost effective as simply granting DST the license. (Not that DCD was in the business of granting licenses. By that point, DC wasn't even handling their own licensing as I recall. It was all being handled by WBCP.) But it is easier to blame Shane and Buttheadsmate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSTZach Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I am fairly certain the C3 line simply undersold and possibly had some engineering headaches, but I really don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Anyone who bought DC C3 could certainly testify to the engineering problems and I wouldn't be surprised if that led to poor sales. (For Bridge Direct's sake, I hope they got the kinks worked out of the C3 sets for the WWE license.) But it certainly wasn't the fault of the DC brand. They were riding high on Justice League Unlimited and even The Batman, with Nolan's first film right around the corner. Things were looking up. At least DC Direct recognized the demand for 2-packs and offered another loophole around whatever was keeping WBCP from licensing the property directly to DST. It just wasn't a great business model and due to initial production delays, series came out too close together saturating the market too quickly, in my opinion. That and they really could have used a "Best of" series to allow newbies the chance to jump on board. They offered many of their most popular characters in that first wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM2 Dinobot Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 C3 was my favorite iteration. They're quite frankly better toys than the DCD run in several cases. And they knew how to sell Batman. What they didn't know was how to sell toys. Are they building blocks or action figures? C3 is having the same problem today. But my preference will always be DCAU over comic. I only regret that both lined ended before we could get wave after wave of skittle lanterns. Because that is how to carry a line. Batman and his rogues gallery, and Green Lantern and the rainbow squad. Just... not the movie version. GLtas please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellpop Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Considering that most people blame the Rainbow Lanterns at least in part for the demise of DC Universe Classics, I don't know if "wave after wave" of them would be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanester Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I like the DC C3 sets, with possible exception of the Batcave. It had engineering issues and was quite expensive at retail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttheadsmate Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 I really like the Batwing(s) whilst the big Batmobile isn't too shabby for the price these days ($50+?) esp. when compared to that big Lego mutha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanester Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Yeah, I think the Batwing is my favorite. I snagged one of the prototypes. I have a proto Batwing and proto Flash Mini-Flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Reportedly this is happening. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there was a time when WB would never have embraced multiple cinematic versions of the Caped Crusader, let alone a Batman movie starring Adam West. It just goes to show how much control and influence one person can have. Since Jeff Robinov left WB, we're getting Batman v. Superman, a stand-alone LEGO Batman movie, and apparently the return of Adam West and Burt Ward to the roles of the Dynamic Duo. Hopefully, with the addition of Gotham Minimates to DST's lineup, there's a greater chance we'll see some proper Batman Minimates, if not the DCU in its entirety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessex Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Sweet jesus. I would LOVE Batman '66 minimtes..... but i'm pretty sure that DST have already said that their '66 license does not include minimates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Maybe that will change? Pretty please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnim zola Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Emailing DCC doesn't hurt, and providing them with alternative workarounds and loopholes (i.e. TMNT keychains) doesn't either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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