The Wrestling Thread

[hellpop]

She's not wrestling anymore, but she's working as an announcer/manager for SHIMMER (I think). The guy that writes the Wrestling Wrap-up column for IGN has a major crush on her, so I know more about her doings then I normally would.

Only saw the first hour or so of Raw but MAN is Daniel Bryan awesome. I said a couple months ago that Ziggler was the best guy in the company... no offense, Showoff, but I was wrong. Bryan is incredible, and his matches with the Shield are just off the charts. That Hurricanrana on Rollins onto Ambrose... amazing. And I'm going to definitely watch the Rybeck match... the first time I've ever typed that sentence.

I really hope that they are building Bryan up as a major face... I mean, he's probably the most over guy in the company. He's proven that he can adapt his style to any opponent, and his strikes are so powerful he looks very credible against much larger men. I really think that, if handled properly, he could finally be the guy to become a solid #2 behind Cena. So, of course, they'll probably turn him heel.

[karamazov80]

He gave Ryback the best match Goldberg 2.0 ever had. Totally agree with you there about Bryan HP.

[hellpop]

So I just read that WWE is building up Daniel Bryan to wrestle John Cena for the WWE title at Money in the Bank... as a babyface. The show is in my backyard in Philly. I haven't been to a WWE show in at least 10 years, but I might go to this.

[karamazov80]

Interesting. On its surface, that seems like a good thing, but knowing WWE as I do, I can see it really going nowhere. He will probably have a brief bump in prestige, have a good match but lose to Cena, then go on back to what he was doing before the push--being a solid mid-carder who jobs to the other guys lining up to face the champ and/or Cena at a given time. I hope I'm wrong!

[storm 1:08]

I hope you are wrong too! It'd be interesting to see Bryan as the WWE champion and trying to prove to everyone he is a worthy champion to carry the company. It seems like an extension of his current weak link storyline where nobody believes in him.

It seems like Punk is the only person who seems worthy enough to be in the title hunt for the WWE title after Ryback. But we've seen Cena/Punk enough. Give Punk/Bryan a shot at the WWE title picture! Make Bryan win over Cena, then Punk reclaiming that he is best in the world after the Jericho storyline which sets Bryan off more. Imagine the epic matches between the two, especially with the title on the line.

[hellpop]

I think it sounds like the PTB have seen how much he's upped his game, and how the crowd responds to him. He's clearly the most over guy in the company (of course, he was last year, when Sheamus beat him in 12 seconds...), and it sounds like they're going to ride that. Probably not to a win over Cena, but positioned clearly as the #2 babyface. In Philly, he's going to be way, way over. But they've struggled for years to find a guy that can be the #2 babyface. It's really not an easy role, with how the WWE books it's babyfaces. Punk was a poor fit, as is Orton. Sheamus should fit that role, but they've really botched his character. And Del Rio just doesn't connect with the crowd, for whatever reason. Bryan does. They should ride him to the top.

So my brother (who's a lapsed wrestling fan) is busy that day, but I might be able to talk my wife into going. She doesn't like wrestling at all, but she does like new experiences. And it's the perfect Father's Day gift!

[karamazov80]

I wish I wasn't a cynic. In which case, I could believe that it is just WWE's ineptitude that keeps a number 2 face from rising to the top, and not that Cena plays a role in keeping people down and far away from his top spot. . .

Imagine the epic matches between the two, especially with the title on the line.

*drool*

Sadly, the more realistic scenario is more Cena/Ryback, then Cena/Mark Henry, then Cena/Big Show, then Cena/Swagger, etc.

[MiniFiend UK]

caught up a bit on my wrestling. The shield Hell No matches are the standouts for me especially from last monday the section when DB went turbo was great.

[hellpop]

The funny thing about those Shield/Hell No/ add a partner matches is that I generally hate when you see the same guys wrestle each other all the time. I mean, I got so sick of seeing some combination of Swagger vs. Del Rio vs Dolph every week, and I never ever ever want to see Wade Barret, Fandango, and the Miz in the same ring together again. But these guys? The only reason I wouldn't want to see them wrestle each other forever is that I want to see them work with other people too. But every match they've had has been great.

On Monday, I really wanted to see Daniel Bryan pin the Sheild, even though I don't want to see the Shield loose. That's how invested I feel in this story. It's so simple, but so great. Bryan is so sympathetic, you just want to see him catch a break. I dunno, I think they're going to ride him to the moon.

[storm 1:08]

Exactly. Sheamus vs. Del Rio series of matches got old quick. Not that they were the most horrible thing, but the matches were mostly standard and we still kept getting it. With Shield, it feels different since they seem to deliver quality matches with their common dance partners. And interesting storylines to keep them together. Very rare these days. Who can beat them as a 3-man team? Are they as effective apart? And what is Bryan going to do next? Granted, more people are involved than in a singles match storyline so it may be unfair to compare. But those guys caught lightning in a bottle. Even though we want new and fresh storylines, I just kind of fear new feuds with new people might lose the current dynamic. Especially if Bryan goes on in a singles career for the WWE title and the Usos slowly becoming a threat.

And I tolerate Miz vs Barrett now with Fandango involved.

[karamazov80]

I agree with you guys, but chalk it up to the level of talent involved. Bryan and Rollins are damn good, both former ROH champs. Kane and the other guy aren't bad, but like Neidhart with the Hart Foundation or Diesel with HBK, they only really work as a complement to the other guy they are tagged with in my opinion. Bryan and Rollins are used to being creative, energetic, and effectively working crowds in different environments--even essentially carrying a company with discerning fans on their shoulders. I think you could substitute any number of other wrestlers into the roles of Kane and. . .uh, Rhino Jr.(?) and it would still work just as well. This is analogous to the old adage that Flair could effectively wrestle a broom, or the fact that Bret Hart could put on memorable classics with guys like (again ) Diesel.

Seamus is horrible. Del Rio is a'aight, but nothing very special. Stick those in the ring together, and. . .you fall asleep.

[storm 1:08]

The Flair wrestling a broom analogy updated to now is like Bryan wrestling a Ryback.

[karamazov80]

LOL Yeah, that's appropriate.

[storm 1:08]

Bryan/Rollins on RAW was a PPV quality match, as the saying goes. I was surprised it was much better than I even imagined.

[karamazov80]

Dammit. I missed Raw completely. Wouldn't have had I known that match was happening.

[hellpop]

Hulu Plus, my friend. It's the only way to watch Raw.

[storm 1:08]

But then you'd miss the inconsequential matches, like Cesaro vs. Sin Cara. I assume that was cut. No idea how Hulu plus edits things, though. It was a good match and made me hopeful for Cesaro's possibly hinted future. I really do wish he would wear the thigh wraps again. I feel weird looking at a guy basically in his underwear and shoes...

[MiniFiend UK]

I'm about a week behind as I've just watched Raw with the DB, Kane, Orton V Shield and again DB star of the night for me. He can get a good match out of it seems anyone at the moment as his second match with Ryback shows. I cant believe I showed interest in a Ryback match. Even though I knew DB would lose to continue the build up for Cena and Ryback he was able to build the match up higher as it progressed even showing elements of American Dragon with the elbow strikes. Again I actually enjoyed a match with Ryback in it !

[karamazov80]

http://youtu.be/aMmAsqtGRmk

[MiniFiend UK]

ROH has released the 2008 match up between Brian Danielson (Daniel Bryan) and Tyler Black (Seth Rollins) I have heard their match up from mondays RAW was one of the best so far So I can understand ROH trying to cash in and gain new fans by showing ppl where it first started.

Be warned the crowd are lively and the language can be a bit on the adult side.

[MiniFiend UK]

Lol, just realised there is a PPV tonight so I'm gonna put up my idea on results.

Sheamus VS Damien Sandow. Dunno what these two have done to be so far down the card. I'm doing for Sheamus.

Wade Barrett VS The Miz VS Curtis Axel - Triple Threat Match for the Intercontinental Title. Gotta go with Curtis Axel just because they want to push him but honestly not that bothered.

Dean Ambrose VS Kane - Singles Match for the United States Title. Ambrose All the way I just cant see WWE derailing the shield just yet.

Chris Jericho VS CM Punk. Hmm hard one this to be honest. Punk in Chicago is going to drive the crowd wild as always, I can see Punk winning as its his first match back an the crowd loving it but I'm going with Jericho. I know it sounds strange but it would be the start of a Punk face turn as he can blame Heyman for booking the match without him and split away some more.

Kaitlyn VS AJ Lee - Singles Match for the Divas Title. AJ to win not that interested

Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns VS Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - Tag Match for the Tag Team Titles. Shield to retain with a Orton turn on Bryan

Dolph Ziggler VS Alberto Del Rio - Singles Match for the World Title. Ziggler to win as even with his concussion I cant see them stripping him of belt.

John Cena VS Ryback - Three Stages Of Hell for the WWE Title. No interest for me in this. Cena to win but I could care less

[karamazov80]

Sounds like a pretty lame and forgettable PPV apart from Punk/Jericho and, maybe, the SHIELD tag match. Orton is probably the only face in the company who could turn on another face and still be considered a face afterward. He's been treated as a kind of Stone Cold-lite for the last few years, after all.

I would much prefer to see Bryan turn on Orton!

[hellpop]

Punk/Jericho just started... I have to point this out: Punk looks exactly like Zach Oat now.

[hellpop]

Okay, PPV just ended. Couple quick, non-spoiler things about the show:

-Rob Van Dam is coming back. He'll be in the Money in the Bank match. It will be kind of cool to see him returning in Philadelphia.

-Jericho/Oat Punk was great. I missed a little of it, but I definitely want to see the whole match again.

Okay, spoilery stuff now:

-Curtis Axel is your new Intercontinental champ. Didn't really watch much of this, but the crowd seemed really, really into it. Finish had Miz with the Figure Four on Barrett, but Axel came in and pinned Wade. So I bet we'll see a Miz/Axel program.

-AJ's your new Diva's champ. Again, I didn't watch too much of this, but they gave them a long time. After loosing, Kaitlyn started to cry in the ring, and eventually Layla came and helped her to the back. Crowd totally shit all over Kaitlyn, chanting "you tapped out" while she's weeping. There's no crying in wrestling!

-Dean Ambrose retained. Again, I didn't watch much of this one.

-Alberto Del Rio is your new WHC. This one I did watch. Interestingly, they seemed to do a double turn here, as Del Rio kept kicking Dolph in the head, and Dolph sold it like the valiant babyface trying to overcome his injury. They did a thing where Dolph's on the outside being checked out by the trainer, and Del Rio sneak attacks him. Ziggler got a brief comeback and hit a Zig Zag (big pop) but was too woozy to capitalize. Another kick to the head and that was all she wrote. Announcers really sold it like Dolph gave it everything he had, and Del Rio crossed the line. They went up to the pre/post show guys (Big Show, R-Truth, and Cody Rhodes), and they all put over that Del Rio seemed like he changed. Alberto came back out and cut a babyface-type promo, but was mostly booed. Interesting stuff. I guess Del Rio never did completely connect as a face.

-Punk pinned Jericho after multiple GTSs. Just a tremendous match. Really, this should have gone on last. Both men were awesome.

-The Shield retained against Orton and Bryan. Bryan was pinned after a spear intended for Orton, and a stomp to the back of the head by Rollins. Match was fine, though the crowd wasn't quite so into it after the Punk match. I think there was even an RVD chant when Orton was in there. Incidentally, I feel bad for Orton. I think he's very good, when motivated, but he's just had nothing to do all year.

-John Cena's still the champ. Ugh. This was so boring, I started reading an old Mike Grell Warlord comic in the middle.

Edited June 17, 2013 by hellpop

[karamazov80]

Nothing so shocking there based on what you wrote HP. Del Rio seemed like a good idea when he first showed up, but I've kind of soured on him. I never look forward to his matches or anything. Maybe if he wore a mask he would be more interesting. . .

Not sure how I feel about their making light of the concussion deal considering that they obviously treat genuine concussions very seriously, then come out and play it up as part of the storyline. I'm not surprised McMahon would do it. He loves to blur the real/artificial line of course (recalling HBK collapsing after a kick to the head by Owen in one of my favorite Raw matches of the period), but. . .I dunno. I guess I don't really care very much.

Edited June 17, 2013 by karamazov80