The Wrestling Thread

[karamazov80]

Yeah, they're really compelling in the ring and attacking folks and whatnot. I just don't get what it is they are really trying to do, and I don't think they do a very good job explaining it.

But what does that matter anyway? This is pro rasslin, not fine literature. They are intimidating, cool, and beat the snot out of people. Sometimes. . .that's enough. Was going to post a "hugging smiley" gif, but since none are avaiable, I'll use this swell new concoction instead:

Indeed, smiley. Would love to see the SHIELD get Toys R Us in the ring.

Edited May 9, 2013 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

I love that the WWE has done such a good job in protecting them. I almost think they learned their lesson from the Nexus fiasco from a few years ago.

I really need to get into Ring of Honor. I know it's probably the best product out there right now, and the WWE seems to have figured that out. Isn't it amazing that no wrestler primarily associated with TNA (not counting guys like Christian and Jeff Hardy, that were already in the WWE) have jumped to WWE and made a significant impact, whereas several guys that made a name in ROH have become key players and even big stars. Imagine if WWE had never signed any WCW guys, but only brought in ECW guys. Seems crazy, doesn't it? But that's what's happening.

Anyway, Cesario still lost to Randy Orton this week.

[karamazov80]

I think it's just that McMahon doesn't want to make it seem as if TNA actually is responsible for something good. ROH was responsible for prepping guys that could have succeeded in either company, and some went to TNA (Austin Ares, Samoa Joe, Nigel McGuinness, Homicide) while others went to WWE (Bryan Danielson, Cladio Castagnioli/Cesaro, Tyler Black/Seth Rollins). The fact that Ares and Joe went to TNA first probably taints them in McMahon's eyes. In a sense, that's what actually also happened with ECW/WCW back in the day. Flair went to WWF in the early '90s, and McMahon gave him the title but didn't care enough to keep him around for long. Vader became a jobber. Steiners weren't kept around long. Later on Big Show, Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero, and Jericho did well, but most of those guys left WCW on bad terms. Guys like Austin, Diesel and Foley succeeded, but they never made a huge name for themselves in WCW.

JR said that he thinks it's a huge missed opportunity for McMahon to not bring back War Games, but he won't because it was WCW's idea.

[hellpop]

Well, it's often been said that McMahon doesn't get (or at least doesn't get behind) guys and characters he didn't create. The list of guys who stepped into the WWF/E with an established character and became a big deal with said character is rather short. Flair might be the best example, but as you said, he didn't stay very long. It took the Big Show years to connect with a WWE audience, and he was never as big a deal there as he was in WCW. Jericho and the Radicalz, despite being great wrestlers all, were never ME guys, and all of struggled for awhile. The one that always sticks out to me is Lex Luger, who was a square peg forced in the round hole of basically taking over Hulk Hogan's gimmick at a time when no one wanted Hulk Hogan anymore.

Anyway...I'm not even sure how relevant the comparison is, because WWE is so far ahead of TNA compared to where they were in relation to WCW (and yes, I know I made the comparison originally). It's not like AJ Styles is more well known then, say, Bryan Danielson, so that they couldn't repackage him. I just think it's weird that no one has made the jump, whereas ROH is becoming a virtual training ground. I would even think that, if you were a ROH guy with the goal of reaching WWE, and TNA called, you'd be better off staying put.

[karamazov80]

That TNA money spends just as good as that of the WWE variety.

[hellpop]

Health care's not as good, though... just ask Daffney.

[storm 1:08]

I just think it's weird that no one has made the jump, whereas ROH is becoming a virtual training ground. I would even think that, if you were a ROH guy with the goal of reaching WWE, and TNA called, you'd be better off staying put.

Some have made the jump (Consequences Creed in TNA is currently Xavier Woods in NXT). But I think you really mean big name TNA Originals like AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Bobby Roode, James Storm, Christopher Daniels, and Abyss. I guess loyalty and wanting to continue laying the tracks for the still smaller company? And I wouldn't necessarily say it is easy to stay put and wait for WWE as they may never call. So TNA could be a plan B and, at the very least, you might get enough TV/recognition during your time there. Thus increasing your profile and getting more money in the indies.

Now onto RAW. It was announced that Ambrose is facing Kingston for the US Championship and Rollins/Reigns will face Hell No for the Tag Team Championships at Extreme Rulez. With the momentum that the Shield still has, how can they not win and become a trio of champions? I am glad they are still going strong and the titles will probably help keep them in the spotlight. It helps a lot that they are focusing on 3 guys rather than the crowd that was Nexus. I liked Nexus, but even I knew they didn't have long term potential as a group.

[karamazov80]

I thought it was a real shame how WWE handled Lo Ki (not sure what he was called in WWE again). He won NXT, then floundered around on Smackdown before being dumped. Very entertaining guy, but didn't exactly fit McMahon's ideal mold.

[MisterMiracle]

I thought it was a real shame how WWE handled Lo Ki (not sure what he was called in WWE again). He won NXT, then floundered around on Smackdown before being dumped. Very entertaining guy, but didn't exactly fit McMahon's ideal mold.

I agree with you there. He could be another top level guy right now (like other Indy darlings CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins, and Dean Ambrose). I'll never understand why they need to take serious wrestlers and turn them into jokes. They're doing the same thing with poor Cesaro right now. That guy is so talented and he gets jobbed out every week.

[MiniFiend UK]

Ok I'm majorly behind on watching any wrestling right now. The Only match I've caught on WWE was the Ambrose/Bryan match.

Anyway I will run over some match predictions.

Pre-Show Match: The Miz vs. Cody Rhodes

Dunno why Cody and Sandow have been pushed down but I'll go with The Miz. Not that bothered really.

Chris Jericho vs. Fandango

Vince's latest pet project Fandango to win I havent got into the character whatever but I tip my hat off to Jericho for doing what alot of established wrestlers wouldn't and that is trying to get the new guy over. Jericho knows why he's there and is playing it right by my eyes.

Extreme Rules Match: Randy Orton vs. The Big Show

Again not that bothered about this match but I think WWE is light on good guys so Orton to win.

Strap Match: Mark Henry vs. Sheamus

This could be the surprise match of the night for me I did see the welts Sheamus had on his back in the build up to this and they looked sore. You could say the strap match is right up Sheamus's street but I'm actually going to go for Henry to win this one. Dunno why but thats how I feel.

United States Championship: Kofi Kingston (c.) vs. Dean Ambrose

This is a match I would want to see I like The Shield and Ambrose is my fav out the three. So I would want Ambrose to win the title. (I know The Shield has a tag title match as well but I can see them winning one or the other belt/belts but not both.)

WWE Tag Team Championship: Team Hell No (c.) vs. The Shield's Reigns & Rollins

Big night for the 3 Shield guys and as Ive said before I cant see all 3 winning gold but i can see a DQ for Hell No as for The Shield not to lose any heat.

Number One Contender I Quit Match: Jack Swagger vs. Alberto del Rio

So Dolph is out with concussion just as he gets his chance. Thats bad luck for him so we get a #1 contenders match well with that in mind I see Del Rio winning as I cant see WWE pitting two bad guys (Ziggler/Swagger) against each other.

Steel Cage Match: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar

I'm a bit bored of Brock now he should have been booked as a monster who just tears through the oppersation in my mind to make his eventual loss something to look forward too but it just hasnt happened. So to be honest I really dont care but I wish for Lesner to win and use it to keep HHH off TV with injuries or whatever.

Last Man Standing Match for the WWE Championship: John Cena (c.) vs. Ryback

Finally Cena/Ryback again not that bothered and I dont get the Ryback Heel turn, ppl where just getting behind him and then they force this on the fans. Again very little interest in this but Cena to win unless there is some sort of outside interference. If so I hope for Punk

For me this is a very weak card coming off a weak wrestlemania so I wont be bothering watching and will prob catch it on a stream online at a later date.

[hellpop]

Yeah, I can't imagine I'll tune in tomorrow either, unless I can't find anything better to do tomorrow night. The only matches I'm interested in at all are the Shield matches. There's a school of thought that putting the US title on Ambrose is actually a bad thing, because the way they book the secondary titles means he's actually dropping down the card. I can't say their isn't some truth to that. I still can't believe that the WWE blew the Shield's unbeaten gimmick like they did on Monday. All because they have to protect John Cena. God forbid he should suffer a loss, in a three-on-one situation and working through an injury. This is why I really don't like the guy. I'm not saying that he insists on being protected (I don't know one way or the other), but he sure doesn't go out of his way to put other guys over.

Anyway. I'm not sick of Brock, but I'm sure sick of Brock interacting with Triple H. The WWE has almost completely wasted him since he's been back, and it's time to see him interacting with some other people on the roster. And I'm also totally uninterested in the Cena/Rybeck match. I don't think it will be very good, for one thing, and heel Rybeck is a complete waste in my eyes. He's just more fodder for Cena.

Sigh... when does Punk get back?

[karamazov80]

I'm not too interested in that card, either. Didn't catch Raw so I have no idea what happened there. Ryback has no chance of winning unless it's some kind of swerve where he *shudder* joins the SHIELD or something.

[hellpop]

So I ended up having this show on while I was cleaning up the kitchen and living room last night, and caught a good bit of it while not paying much attention. The big news, of course, is the finish of the WWE title match, which was *SPOILERS* a no-contest. Basically, Cena and Rybeck went through the big screen or something (I actually missed much of this match because my daughter woke up), and were both out. Cena ended up being carried off in a stretcher, while Rybeck walked off (with help). Obviously (I think, though you never know with the WWE), they're going to do a thing where Rybeck comes out and says he should be champion because he was the Last Man Standing. Now, here's the thing that bugs me: with the way the John Cena character's been written over the years... he should agree, shouldn't he? He should come out and say you're right, I couldn't get to my feet and you could, here's your title. And maybe that's what will happen, but I suspect it won't. Damn Cena!

[storm 1:08]

So Paul Heyman unveiled the new Paul Heyman Guy. And he is Curtis Axel! 3rd gen star. AKA Michael McGillicutty. AKA Joe Hennig. AKA son of Mr. Perfect. At first, I thought it might be Cesaro to help get him over more. But I am not disappointed with this. Some probably will. I always liked McGillicutty but really, McGillicutty as a name? Calling his fans McGillibuddies didn't help either even though I thought it was funny. With Punk and Brock out for now, good to keep Paul in the spotlight and help elevate some new talent. Of course, Triple H had to bury him in the grand unveiling. However, Axel had a match with Triple H in the main event and won...? Well, Triple H started getting dizzy or something and the match stopped. This is supposedly to sell the effects of Brock's brutal beating at the PPV. Still a little weird seeing a guy who has been jobbing on Superstars for the past few months hit the RAW main event. Especially since his look didn't get repackaged so it's really only a name change plus Heyman. And yeah, he's going to need new music. Not just a quick remix of Mr. Perfect's theme.

I didn't notice that Cena wasn't on RAW until you mentioned it Hellpop. Cena technically did walk away on his two feet. Apparently it was on the post-show where Cena Cena'd up and got off the stretcher and said he's fine and didn't want to go to the hospital. But all you need to know from tonight regarding that feud is ambulance match at Payback (next PPV). Eh. I miss Zigglypuff.

Edited May 21, 2013 by storm 1:08

[hellpop]

Yeah, without Ziggler and Punk, there's not a lot to look forward to on these (as Punk would say) dreadful three hour Raws.

I'm fine with Joe Hennig as the new Heyman guy. I'm glad they are finally recognizing that a manager like Heyman can give a talented guy that's struggled to get over instant credibility. Although I would have rather seen Cesario here as well, but oh well. I'm not sure about the new name; I like the reasoning behind it, but Curtis Axel... ugh. And they can't even call him Curt Axel, because that would sound too much like Kurt Angle.

I didn't think that HHH buried him, but he should have put the new kid over. Since they were already doing the concussion deal, let Curtis Axel get the pin. Give him a boost right out the gate.

[karamazov80]

Yeah, I'm same as you guys--OK with this guy, Cesaro would have been WAY better. But the name, crappy theme music, and fact that he still acts like an upstart mid-carder don't help his case. Cesaro though is a guy that's primed to jump right into the main event. He's more like the Austin or Rick Rude that Heyman helped guide back in the early-mid '90s.

[storm 1:08]

I thought I'd give the name a little more time to sink in, but it still isn't doing it. Axel just has like a 90's rock/grunge connotation to me (most likely due to Axel Rotten and Axel Rose). But I'll get used to it eventually. Much better than McGillicutty. So how about the rest of RAW...? Okay, let's move on.

FYI, El Generico is making his debut tomorrow on NXT. Well, his maskless persona, Sami Zayn. I have to say, I was intrigued by his promo last week. I only saw his last match in the indies where he gave his farewell speech but I am really looking forward to seeing more of him.

[Nervous Rex]

All I want , is for a return of the shockmaster! And coinciding minimates.

[karamazov80]

LOL Shockmaster, Mantaur, and the Yeti could all return as a faction to really dominate WWE.

Just imagine these guys in the ring AT THE SAME TIME!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln7527aZBN1qztyt7o1_500.png

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/709/747/yeti_display_image.gif?1351463551

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/191/934/mantaur_display_image.jpg?1270616442

Edited May 21, 2013 by karamazov80

[Nervous Rex]

LOL Shockmaster, Mantaur, and the Yeti could all return as a faction to really dominate WWE.

Just imagine these guys in the ring AT THE SAME TIME!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln7527aZBN1qztyt7o1_500.png

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/709/747/yeti_display_image.gif?1351463551

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/191/934/mantaur_display_image.jpg?1270616442

Ha, I was gonna add mantaur and mr moon (I think that was his name) Hilarious!

I bet a shockmaster minimate would always tip over and lose his helmet

Edited May 21, 2013 by Nervous

[karamazov80]

Yeah, there were lots of gems in that period. Max Moon, "the Goon," Duke the Dumpster Droese, Man Mountain Rock, the entire Dungeon of Doom (especially Yeti, Shark Attack, and Zodiac though), etc. There used to be a great website that would showcase all those losers. Can't remember what it was called. . .

--edit: just remembered. Wrestlecrap.com

http://www.wrestlecrap.com/

Looks like it is still going in some fashion. That picture/headline about JTG is hilarious.

http://www.wrestlecrap.com/headlies/headlies-jtg-hiding-from-wwe-officials-to-avoid-being-future-endeavored/

Edited May 21, 2013 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

I was just listening to an Observer podcast with the guy that runs WrestleCrap; he an Bryan Alvarez are working on a new edition of their "Death of WCW" book. So weird, I haven't thought about that site in years, and here I hear it mentioned twice in one day.

And: doesn't Curtis Axel sound like it belongs on that list? Like he'd be a guy with a trucker gimmick or something?

[karamazov80]

LOL Yes. He could tag team with the "real man's man" William Regal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrBdxRDIMD0

I think there was a trucker wrestler in WCW--The "Blacktop Bully"! (aka Smash aka Repo Man)

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2011/03/Blacktop-Bully--WCW.jpg

Edited May 22, 2013 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

Well, sure there was a guy with a trucker gimmick in WCW-- Dusty friggin' Rhodes.

BTW, for what it's worth, Dave Meltzer also thought that Triple H buried Mr. The Perfect Axe last night.

[storm 1:08]

Sami Zayn/El Generico debuted on NXT this week and it wasn't a bad first showing. But he then had a 2nd match in the show against Cesaro, who demanded some competition (same exact promo he did a few weeks ago). Solid match with Cesaro doing another couple of moves that I will remember for a while, like that suplex on Kofi. A reversal on a top rope crossbody in the most fluid way I have ever seen into a backbreaker and also countering an inside cradle attempt into a vertical suplex. Cesaro is slowly becoming the true human highlight reel for me. At this point, he might as well should join the Shield since it is an injustice that he's being wasted. Until then, I'll keep beating this dead horse dead.