Marvel Minimates Series 50: The Reality

[Twisted Two-Face]

We definitely don't re-release variants. But then, we don't do straight re-releases of anything. Not sure if that's a loophole or cheating or just really awesome. If you count making a much better/slightly different version as a re-release... well, that's a problem.

Is collection value a concern for people here? Like, our making a better Jewel or Nitro is gonna make the original Jewel or Nitro worth less? I see more concerns over Minimates being hard to find than having their rarity threatened.

Newer and modernized is better. I don't mix old mates with new, they just look so off. (That said, no one needs a new Jewel...ever. Nitro updated would be cool)

This is one of the biggest reasons i'm happy to have a new Emma coming. Necessary improvements made and she looks perfect. Same with the new Symbiote Spider-man, SHIELD body, Daredevil, etc. Redos rock.

The difference is someone like Cap who might have a different face tampo and shade of blue from release to release. That's annoying.

Regardless, Minimates are not investments. They're amazing, fun collectible block figures. If you're concerned about one being worthless later because a better figure comes along, you're in the wrong hobby.

[battlecat]

That said, no one needs a new Jewel...ever.

Hmm, well technically we never got a Jewel, we got a Skrull impersonating her... but no, I agree -- what we really need is a civilian detective Jessica!

[hellpop]

I've never really had that problem, since I've been collecting these since wave 1. I've never had to pay a REALLY ridiculous price, because I've been around to buy pretty much everything new.

There were a couple odd exceptions... when something got rare much quicker than usual, and the price went up fast. Warpath and Angely outliers. But the vast majority I've paid normal prices for.

PS. They have redone Stealth Iron Man. Twice. Once as a movie figure, once in Marvel vs Capcom 3. They both look much different, but that comes with the territory of updates and is to be expected. The MvC3 one is technically an update of the comic book version though, for all intents and purposes.

I knew about the movie one (which is also rare, which I'd bought it when I saw it), but forgot about the MvC one. And I don't remember anyone saying boo about 'em, so there you go.

[karamazov80]

But then, we don't do straight re-releases of anything.

. . .usually. Right?

http://www.minimatedatabase.com/pack.php?i=762

Regarding value, Minimates in general ain't the best line to collect if you are interested in the appreciation of a collectible investment in most cases (I'm sure most of the Minimates I've sold have gone for a loss). But some Minimates do skyrocket in price for one reason or another. I'm sure there are some collectors who buy with an investment in mind, but probably not many. As far as mass produced, "low end" (no offense intended, just meaning it isn't high end stuff like Hot Toys) fare goes, Marvel Legends are probably a better move.

Edited June 6, 2012 by karamazov80

[TM2 Dinobot]

I don't view Minimates as an investment. However, whenever a reissue (for lack of a better word) comes out, the place plummets on the rarer figures. Black Spidey. Julia Carpenter. These are prime examples. However, I view the Chinese rejects as more of a threat to after market prices than reissues.

For me it comes down to something very special. If, presumably at this rate, almost every character will be reissued, then why the %#&@ am I collecting these in the %#&@ing first place?! Seriously!

Every mate is special. They are designed to go together. But if you look at it and say "Hmm, Kingpin is old and I don't want to mix him with my new stuff. He needs a reissue." Then why did you buy him in the first place?

You mentioned Nitro, TTF. What exactly is wrong with him. He fits in fine. He is detailed and has unique pats. Is it that you don't like the hair hat fits the character?

This is me talking. My personal opinion. I am not dictating how other people manage their collection. Bu I strive to get every single Minimate. I want to give them all the devotion and attention they deserve, as appreciation for the hard work other human being put into trying to enrich my life. And when mates are reissued (in general, but especially ones from post wave 6) it hurts. It's like saying "What we did before doesn't matter, because this is cool. Throw you old nasty outdated mates away." It's a very Lucasian thing to do.

I find myself parts swapping, just to keep the older guys relevant. My two Thanos have switched gloves and heads. 10pk Mr Fantastic is wearing the TRU wave's hair. Is this crazy? I'm not qualified to decide that and neither are any of y'all.

But really, that's why I hate reissues. Because it takes away from the simplicity, design aesthetic, uniqueness, relevancy and hard work I put into hunting those guys down to begin with.

[Secaucuscollector]

O well i guess I'll find out tomorrow

[Gillbob316]

There is definitely a marked and noticeable design curve that differentiates minimates in wave 1 from minimates in wave 50. Where the ones in between fall varies... but some could definately stand an update more than others... and the idea that EVERY ONE of these THOUSAND+ figures goes together, is frankly, laughable.

Marvel Legends are made to go together too, but the same idea exists in that line. Compare Wave 1 Iron Man or Captain America to a later Marvel Legends Iron Man or Captain America and the difference in scale makes them look like they're from an entirely Different line. Legends Spideys have actually gotten BIGGER... the ones from the early waves look like shrimps now.

Toy lines evolve over time. Even if they're all made to go together... inconsistencies naturally come up.

I bought Kingpin in the first place because at that point... only about 20 minimates existed... and yes he "went" with all of them. Over the years however, more have been released, and no, he doesn't go so well anymore, which is presumably why they just updated him. Some new mates have replaced others. Some are far more detailed than others. And no, very old ones don't "go" with newer ones. There's a visual disconnect in their designs. They may very well have been designed by different people. Or they may have been designed by the same guy, but maybe his style has evolved over 10 years. But there are CERTAINLY minimates which don't "go together" well.

I agree with you on Nitro, I have no problem with him. He's in that middle ground area, where he's not old or new, and tolerable at both ends if you ask me.

Year 1 Rhino however, does not GO with Bulked Up Hulk. They look ridiculously out of place when displayed together, and it doesn't take a genius to see why.

And no, other very old figures like Thunderbird (who sparked this conversation) don't GO very well with newer ones.

Some figures are very out of date. Some are only slightly out of date. And some aren't out of date at all. But no, every figure does not go well with every other figure in this line, by any means...

There is a marked difference between This Green Goblin and This Green Goblin even though they're wearing the same costume.

This Mr. Fantastic doesn't go with this Invisible Woman worth a damn.

It's not all that hard to wrap ones head around and it's perfectly reasonable for people to want to see some older figures updated, to bring them in line with some of their more recent teammates or rivals.

Toy lines tend to evolve over time.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Gillbob316

[battlecat]

One thing to keep in mind is that saying some mates are out of date, or don't go with the current line, isn't the same as saying we suddenly think they suck now. I know I still have a bunch of old school mates on display, just separately from the new ones. I still love the original Spidey and Daredevil mates and others, but if we'd never gotten newer versions to better fit with all the "newer" mates, that would've been a shame.

[DSTZach]

I never said anyone should get rid of old Minimates once re-issues come out, only that the re-issues are usually significantly different, so that both versions can be appreciated, even if you prefer one over the other. I love old Minimates, and keep them even when newer, more detailed versions com out. Did the same with Legends. But if new collectors AND old collectors both want new versions of old characters, and we're not concerned about maintaining value, then it seems like an arbitrary decision not to make new ones.

And if the word "unlikely" was used in conjunction with the rule of four-packs, then that is not a rule. It is a theory.

[monkeycrumb]

I never said anyone should get rid of old Minimates once re-issues come out, only that the re-issues are usually significantly different, so that both versions can be appreciated, even if you prefer one over the other. I love old Minimates, and keep them even when newer, more detailed versions com out. Did the same with Legends. But if new collectors AND old collectors both want new versions of old characters, and we're not concerned about maintaining value, then it seems like an arbitrary decision not to make new ones.

And if the word "unlikely" was used in conjunction with the rule of four-packs, then that is not a rule. It is a theory.

Great! Now can we get some AIM agents rereleased? With MODOK coming, I need a bigger army!

[karamazov80]

Just give them a different face and better paint apps on their helmets. Then, everyone is happy!

[MinnesotaIceman]

The good thing about re-issues is that people who started collecting Minimates much later can have a chance to get certain characters without having to pay an arm and a leg. I just think it's bull crap that we should be expected to pay in the neighborhood of $50 for Bullseye and Moonstone or Gambit and Psylocke, for example.

Releasing a character only once, and then saying "Well, if you missed out the first time, sucks to be you!" seems pretty dickish, IMO.

[Valo487]

Just to throw in another point of view, yes the older 'mates stylistically are very different from modern ones, and some definitely benefitted from a redo. However, just because a 'mate is harder to find than others or hasn't had one for a year or two does NOT mean they need a new one. If we start recycling through every character that has been made after a few years we'll never get anything new, and for me the ratio of new vs. redo is already not even enough.

Luke Cage definitely needs a redo, like Rhino did. Spider-Woman for example doesn't need a new one just because she hasn't had one in a while when the differences would likely boil down to a few lines to add detail. And as far as cost goes, you can buy one right now on eBay still sealed for 10.99 with free shipping. Some characters merit a rerelease if they're a big enough name and hard to come by, like Dr. Strange, but at some point it gets ridiculous to say every character that's not readily available merits a revisit. At some point there has to be some reward for being in for the long haul.

The Gambit Psylocke thing I understand, that wave seemed very scarce even early on.

[MinnesotaIceman]

For example, wave 24(?) Spider-Man and Venom and wave 28 Wolverine and Deadpool were later re-released as a box set. Why not do something similar with Bullseye, Moonstone, and Swordsman (as an example)? They were each on the same team, so they would fit together perfectly. Just an idea.

[undeadpool]

10.99 is more then id ever pay for one minimate, but thats just me

also spiderwoman would greatly benefit from new hair, some web underarms, new tampos, a new energy webbing piece and maybe extra original costume head

[Kostisfire]

I'm all for re releases. I missed out on scorpion,electro and all the classic Spidey villains as well as many x men. I don't want to pay 60 bucks to get gambit. I want to complete my teams and I have to pay enormous quantities of money.

[Turtle]

10.99 is more then id ever pay for one minimate, but thats just me

also spiderwoman would greatly benefit from new hair, some web underarms, new tampos, a new energy webbing piece and maybe extra original costume head

Yeah, Spider-Woman to me is a prime example of a character that ought to be revisited: popular character, been years since last release, stylistically doesn't fit as well.

[hellpop]

and for me the ratio of new vs. redo is already not even enough.

You don't say? I'd never have guessed.

[TM2 Dinobot]

I'd disagree. Spiderwoman stylistically fits fine, IMO.

Here's something else. And I actually hesitate to say this, because it makes me sound like a total dick. However, there are dues you have to pay as a collector of (any) line. Just because someone isn't willing to pay more for a minimate on ebay, does NOT mean it should be reissued. Just as it is not DST's job to protect after market prices from falling, it is equally not their job to keep them from rising. If new collectors aren't willing to pay the standard (read: not insane) ebay prices of single figures, then, again, maybe they should think about collecting something else instead. If you want, for example, Spiderwoman reissued because you don't have her/don't want to pay the price of her, that's fine. But DST has to consider that many, many, MANY collectors have her. I still have a surplus from '06 when Target had her and Riot Spidey on clearance for $0.50. I know for a fact I am not alone in this. So what happens if DST reissues her, and you're happy, but no one else buys her?

Instead, a more amicable solution IMHO, would be to do the Black Spidey/Melee Spidey solution. Release a battle damage version of Jessica. Swap out the arm things and hair for your old one. Call it done. (For the record, Athena's hair and Namor's arm wings make a pretty swanky update to your old figure)

I'm not trying to be down on people. Just pointing out that DST has more to consider than who you want, or even who needs an update. Mainly it comes down to the fact that we always forget: Who will children buy.

And just so y'all know, I understand frustration. I paid $90 for a Black Spidey back in the day. But it evened itself out. I paid $3.50 for Bullseye/Moonstone. So if I seem a little jaded, it's because I don't care. Things have a way of working themselves out.

Edited June 6, 2012 by TM2 Dinobot

[karamazov80]

$90 for Black Spidey??? That must have been before my time. I've seen them go for $30 or so a few years back, but that's really nuts.

[Kostisfire]

I'd disagree. Spiderwoman stylistically fits fine, IMO.

Here's something else. And I actually hesitate to say this, because it makes me sound like a total dick. However, there are dues you have to pay as a collector of (any) line. Just because someone isn't willing to pay more for a minimate on ebay, does NOT mean it should be reissued. Just as it is not DST's job to protect after market prices from falling, it is equally not their job to keep them from rising. If new collectors aren't willing to pay the standard (read: not insane) ebay prices of single figures, then, again, maybe they should think about collecting something else instead. If you want, for example, Spiderwoman reissued because you don't have her/don't want to pay the price of her, that's fine. But DST has to consider that many, many, MANY collectors have her. I still have a surplus from '06 when Target had her and Riot Spidey on clearance for $0.50. I know for a fact I am not alone in this. So what happens if DST reissues her, and you're happy, but no one else buys her?

Instead, a more amicable solution IMHO, would be to do the Black Spidey/Melee Spidey solution. Release a battle damage version of Jessica. Swap out the arm things and hair for your old one. Call it done. (For the record, Athena's hair and Namor's arm wings make a pretty swanky update to your old figure)

I'm not trying to be down on people. Just pointing out that DST has more to consider than who you want, or even who needs an update. Mainly it comes down to the fact that we always forget: Who will children buy.

And just so y'all know, I understand frustration. I paid $90 for a Black Spidey back in the day. But it evened itself out. I paid $3.50 for Bullseye/Moonstone. So if I seem a little jaded, it's because I don't care. Things have a way of working themselves out.

Exactly. There are some figures you desperately want. Then you will try to find them either from eBay or from some board member. I paid 60 bucks for deadpool but I bought the bullseye pack from geohound for 12 or 18 dollars. A new collector must search to find what he wants. Currently I'm trying to buy the major figures I missed and complete my teams and collection. Now that there are no new releases for a while is the perfect opportunity to start buying old mates. Scorpion,shocker,kraven are pretty much perfect so to be re released they would need a different costume. DST needs to release unreleased figures first and then fill empty spots with re releases.

EDIT: on the other hand re releases are necessary for a line to continue. I won't buy vision or ms marvel because I know that they need an update and they will certainly be re released but with much more detail. When I started collecting minimates the thing that drew me is that they cost little,they have many accessories,you can complete teams much easier than the other toylines and the fact that the are do many characters to buy. I'm all for updates, a new cage is a must. Same for vision. The best thing would be to release one themed wave and then a random wave. Half new characters,half updates.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Kostisfire

[Webhead]

10.99 is more then id ever pay for one minimate, but thats just me

It's a sealed 2 pack so you are paying $5.50 for a single mate shipped. and in the stores depending on what your sales tax is you are currently paying around $8.50 after tax at TRU for new 2 pack and probably around $9.60 at an LCS. So $10.99 for a 2 pack isn't much more than what you are probably paying now.

and if people don't want to spend the money to get a rare figure then don't spend it. But don't clamor for a rerelease because you don't want to spend money on the secondary market.

My name is Webhead and I agree with TM2!

Edited June 6, 2012 by Webhead

[youbastards]

Here's something else. And I actually hesitate to say this, because it makes me sound like a total dick. However, there are dues you have to pay as a collector of (any) line. Just because someone isn't willing to pay more for a minimate on ebay, does NOT mean it should be reissued. Just as it is not DST's job to protect after market prices from falling, it is equally not their job to keep them from rising. If new collectors aren't willing to pay the standard (read: not insane) ebay prices of single figures, then, again, maybe they should think about collecting something else instead. If you want, for example, Spiderwoman reissued because you don't have her/don't want to pay the price of her, that's fine.

<soapbox>

ALL characters, regardless of when they were released as Minimates, are open for revisiting at some point.

I think you are missing one of the obvious reasons that DST reissues characters...they make money off of the reissue that they wouldn't see from sales on the secondary market.

Who cares if the old Spiderwoman still sells for MSRP on eBay, if DST doesn't see a dime of it. By reissuing a character, with better detailing and more accessories, it incentifies a consumer who may have been perfectly happy with the first release and also allows new collectors to buy a character they might not have.

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are a lot of consumers who buy Minimates that don't look for them on eBay, visit this forum, or even know about Ivan's database. Remember the mother and daughter you met at C2E2, you gave the daughter some parts she was missing. They didn't know anything about the "collecting"aspect of Minimates, but they still liked them enough to attend a panel.

Collectors tend to have a mentality of "I support your product, so in return you should make the products I want", and to an extent DST goes out of the way to accommodate this, but in the end they are a company trying to maintain a certain profit margin while simultaneously keeping die hard fans happy and trying to bring new consumers into the fold.

To summarize, buy what you want, but be happy with what you are offered, because it may not be what you WANT, but it means the line is thriving.

</soapbox>

[Webhead]

Here's something else. And I actually hesitate to say this, because it makes me sound like a total dick. However, there are dues you have to pay as a collector of (any) line. Just because someone isn't willing to pay more for a minimate on ebay, does NOT mean it should be reissued. Just as it is not DST's job to protect after market prices from falling, it is equally not their job to keep them from rising. If new collectors aren't willing to pay the standard (read: not insane) ebay prices of single figures, then, again, maybe they should think about collecting something else instead. If you want, for example, Spiderwoman reissued because you don't have her/don't want to pay the price of her, that's fine.

<soapbox>

ALL characters, regardless of when they were released as Minimates, are open for revisiting at some point.

I think you are missing one of the obvious reasons that DST reissues characters...they make money off of the reissue that they wouldn't see from sales on the secondary market.

Who cares if the old Spiderwoman still sells for MSRP on eBay, if DST doesn't see a dime of it. By reissuing a character, with better detailing and more accessories, it incentifies a consumer who may have been perfectly happy with the first release and also allows new collectors to buy a character they might not have.

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are a lot of consumers who buy Minimates that don't look for them on eBay, visit this forum, or even know about Ivan's database. Remember the mother and daughter you met at C2E2, you gave the daughter some parts she was missing. They didn't know anything about the "collecting"aspect of Minimates, but they still liked them enough to attend a panel.

Collectors tend to have a mentality of "I support your product, so in return you should make the products I want", and to an extent DST goes out of the way to accommodate this, but in the end they are a company trying to maintain a certain profit margin while simultaneously keeping die hard fans happy and trying to bring new consumers into the fold.

To summarize, buy what you want, but be happy with what you are offered, because it may not be what you WANT, but it means the line is thriving.

</soapbox>

I agree with this too. I'm fine with rereleases/reissues. I just dont' think a figure should be remade just cause people don't want to pay high ebay prices. DST should do whatever they feel is needed and can make them money.

Cause then minimates continue for another 10 years and becomes the Simpsons of toy lines.

[buttheadsmate]

There is so much I'd love to say but I'm biting my tongue again

Some thoughts however:

Variants IMO were rarely spectacular in the early days of Marvel...headswaps & colour swaps.....lately they've been far more interesting.

Very very few neo-re-releases (does that make sense?) have actually affected the pricing too much of the original...Frosty Ice-Man & Nightcrawler maybe .....again remembering that Nightcrawler was NEVER rare .

Rarity ? I constantly see Wave 28 DP packs sell for twice what you'll get a Heroes & Adversaries pack ....madness.

Value of collection = Rollercoaster Ride.