Street Fighter x Tekken

[dr baghead]

I don't know what we could have done differently.

NOT MAKING RUFUS

Seriously, we still might not have gotten more then 2 waves but if the line had replaced Steve, Raven, Murdok, and Lili with Jin, Xiaoyu, Paul, and Law (you know, classic characters VS ones from who have only been in one other game) and Rufus with Goddamned anyone (I figure you legally had to include Ryu and Chun-Li, I know SOTA had to legally put them and Ken within the first two waves of their figures, but if you didn’t HAVE to include them you really shouldn’t have) it would have been far more satisfying to fans.

did the guy who made the Thor Movie line also make the SFxT line up?

[mtd20_2000]

No, he's right -- not making that one character doomed the line. Doomed, I tell you. The minute we left him out of Series 1 a raven flew through our window. And killed an intern.

Series 1 had some pretty major A-listers on both sides. Nina, Ken, Guile, etc. I don't know what we could have done differently.

I never said not making Jin doomed the line, I said it HELPED to doom the line. IMO making Jin sure as hell would not have hurt the line (considering he is one of the three MAIN characters in the game)!

Although who knows, from a popularity stand point it may have been doomed from the start because there was not enough demand in the market place for the product (you cannot blame me, I bought every set in both series including the TRU waves).

As for series one, King & Nina were good choices, however, if you think Lili, Steve Fox, & Marduk are A-listers then it leads me to believe you do not play Tekken much. I applaud dr baghead's choices and feel his opinion was spot on for improving the Tekken line. As for the intern, may he RIP.

Edited August 14, 2013 by mtd20_2000

[TM2 Dinobot]

I swear I'm the only person who had never even heard of Tekken before this line came out.

[TENIME_art]

No, he's right -- not making that one character doomed the line. Doomed, I tell you. The minute we left him out of Series 1 a raven flew through our window. And killed an intern.

[winkerbean]

No, he's right -- not making that one character doomed the line. Doomed, I tell you. The minute we left him out of Series 1 a raven flew through our window. And killed an intern.

Oh my god thats terrible, thats the most tragic thing i've heard all day, please tell me the raven was ok after that stupid intern got in its way? Edited August 14, 2013 by winkerbean

[DSTZach]

I do not play Tekken much. And I have not played SFXT. But I meant Nina and King, and pretty much all the Street Fighter characters in Series 1. Otherwise, I think we were going for interesting looking characters. I understand the importance and appeal of Law, but he is pretty nondescript, especially in Minimate form. Maybe we could have chosen different characters, and "improved" the line, but who can say if it would have affected sales.

[TBT!]

I swear I'm the only person who had never even heard of Tekken before this line came out.

Really? or are you just Tekken the Piss?

T.

[dr baghead]

I do not play Tekken much. And I have not played SFXT. But I meant Nina and King, and pretty much all the Street Fighter characters in Series 1. Otherwise, I think we were going for interesting looking characters. I understand the importance and appeal of Law, but he is pretty nondescript, especially in Minimate form. Maybe we could have chosen different characters, and "improved" the line, but who can say if it would have affected sales.

It might not have affected sales, but SFxT wasn’t well received due to the DLC scandal, the 5-exclusives-for-PS3-NONE-for-X-Box characters debacle, and Gem system (it’s banned from EVO, which pretty means no one bothers plaing it any more) so there’s very little DST could have done to right a sinking ship Capcom drove straight into the icebergs of nerdrage.

So while sales could never have been great... was there some kind of shame in JUST making the heavy hitters and walking away at two waves? (Like I said: Law, Paul, Xiaoyu, Jin in place of Raven, Murdok, Lili, and Steve. And Vega, Balrog, and Dhalsim in place of Rufus, Ryu, and Chun-Li and there could be absolutely ZERO bitching on the fans part about the character selection.) Was there always some secret hope at DST you’d get to do waves 3 and 4 to finish up the cast so it would have been silly to use up all the A-listers in just two waves?

... because seriously, instead of coming in here and laughing at your Raven jokes, Marvel fans should realize you basically said “we didn’t doom the line by NOT making an A-lister, and instead made some interesting D-listers” and start asking you why this can’t be applied to Marvel... Maybe we don’t need ANOTHER Spider-man? We didn’t need Jin after all... Maybe we COULD get the Wrecking Crew as a box set? You thought f**king Rufus, the worst Street Fighter (and I’m including Captain Swada) EVER had some form of market appeal after all.

[mtd20_2000]

Well said dr baghead, I agree with your post 100%, more so then the original condescending reply this DST representative felt the need to regurgitate.

[TM2 Dinobot]

... because seriously, instead of coming in here and laughing at your Raven jokes, Marvel fans should realize you basically said “we didn’t doom the line by NOT making an A-lister, and instead made some interesting D-listers” and start asking you why this can’t be applied to Marvel... Maybe we don’t need ANOTHER Spider-man? We didn’t need Jin after all... Maybe we COULD get the Wrecking Crew as a box set? You thought f**king Rufus, the worst Street Fighter (and I’m including Captain Swada) EVER had some form of market appeal after all.

Given that this effects me I will address it specifically. That joke was flipping hilarious. I laughed for a good 2 minutes. And no, as a Marvel fan I'm not upset or even remotely worried.

DST does a lot of things. Marvel is their poster child. They've got the formula down pat, regardless if its the one we like or not. But as they've said over and over, they're not a video game company. This series was dependent on TRU AND on MvC. Without MvC SFvT never would have happened, and without TRU neither would have stood a chance. So the question isn't "What did DST to F%$# up the line?" but rather "Given the unpredictability of the market, and projected sales numbers for a game that will have been out by the time these toys are released but is still in pre-sale at this time, how can we best cater to TRU in a way that will appeal to the casual fans as well as collectors, and maintain sales."

Given that these held no accessories and were still ¢.50 more expensive than their other minimate counterparts, I think it's safe to say that this license cost more than the others. And the only question here shouldn't be "Why didn't you make character X?!" but rather "Was this life profitable to the overall Minimate line (both financially and culturally) or did it encourage you to stop taking chances on new and innovative ideas?"

Edited August 15, 2013 by TM2 Dinobot

[DSTZach]

Well said dr baghead, I agree with your post 100%, more so then the original condescending reply this DST representative felt the need to regurgitate.

I didn't mean to offend, but I see now that I did. I apologize, mtd20. Your personal message was heard loud and clear. Not sure why I chose to get involved in a discussion about a defunct line, but I guess I felt a knee-jerk urge to defend our decisions -- which I am not privy to, by the way. (I do not choose character line-ups. If I had, I would certainly have included Paul. I have loved his hair since I was a boy.) And my inability to leave the Multiverse for long has made me perhaps too comfortable -- I often let my personal feelings show in less-than-appropriate ways. And while I am not a huge gamer, I love that we rolled the dice on this license, almost as much as I hate seeing the team's hard work taken for granted.

I do not know if we were told to include certain characters in Series 1 and 2 and not include others -- there may be a legal concern over merchandise for Law, I have no idea. I do not know how well we expected the line to perform, only that it didn't, or how long we expected it to go on, only that it didn't. If we had known the brand would be hurt by gamer discontent, maybe we would have tried to cover most of the original Tekken characters in Series 1 and 2, but I'm sure we hoped for the best. And honestly? We probably expected Street Fighter to carry the line anyway, since the fan base is perceptibly larger, we had already established a link with the Capcom community, and Tekken merchandise does not have as strong a track record. (While at ToyFare, I remember the 12" and 7" Tekken figures lingering.)

And baghead, I think any Marvel fan will look at the characters we've made and the characters we still HAVEN'T made, and see that SFxT wasn't really that different. We JUST announced a Falcon for Marvel Series 54. In ten years, we have NEVER made Banshee and Sunfire. Is it so strange that some of the main characters of Tekken were not in the first two series? Marvel Minimates fans probably think this discussion is hilarious. Heck, even Street Fighter fans had to wait six years for Guile.

As far as Rufus goes, I LOVE Rufus -- the Minimate, anyway. Everyone has their favorite Street Fighter characters (Dudley, anyone?), and I'm sure somewhere someone is thrilled that we made Rufus. We always try to make visually interesting Minimates over boring Minimates, and in this case it seems to have disappointed some people, so on behalf of DST, I apologize. I hope the 12 Tekken characters and however many Street Fighter characters we WERE able to make still bring you some enjoyment.

Edited August 15, 2013 by DSTZach

[Zak Katz]

Blanka...

[Lobsterman]

I thought the line was a lot of fun while it lasted, and resulted in some of the coolest Mates in the brand's ten year history -- honestly. It's always a bummer when your favorite character doesn't get made, but I think for the two waves that made it out, this series was an indisputable win.

[dr baghead]

Was going to respond to TM2 (I have something to say to him, but I’ll save it to the end.) I spent an hour writing something up but it doesn’t matter because Zach said this:

Well said dr baghead, I agree with your post 100%, more so then the original condescending reply this DST representative felt the need to regurgitate.

I didn't mean to offend, but I see now that I did. I apologize, mtd20. Your personal message was heard loud and clear. Not sure why I chose to get involved in a discussion about a defunct line, but I guess I felt a knee-jerk urge to defend our decisions -- which I am not privy to, by the way. (I do not choose character line-ups. If I had, I would certainly have included Paul. I have loved his hair since I was a boy.) And my inability to leave the Multiverse for long has made me perhaps too comfortable -- I often let my personal feelings show in less-than-appropriate ways. And while I am not a huge gamer, I love that we rolled the dice on this license, almost as much as I hate seeing the team's hard work taken for granted.

I do not know if we were told to include certain characters in Series 1 and 2 and not include others -- there may be a legal concern over merchandise for Law, I have no idea. I do not know how well we expected the line to perform, only that it didn't, or how long we expected it to go on, only that it didn't. If we had known the brand would be hurt by gamer discontent, maybe we would have tried to cover most of the original Tekken characters in Series 1 and 2, but I'm sure we hoped for the best. And honestly? We probably expected Street Fighter to carry the line anyway, since the fan base is perceptibly larger, we had already established a link with the Capcom community, and Tekken merchandise does not have as strong a track record. (While at ToyFare, I remember the 12" and 7" Tekken figures lingering.)

And baghead, I think any Marvel fan will look at the characters we've made and the characters we still HAVEN'T made, and see that SFxT wasn't really that different. We JUST announced a Falcon for Marvel Series 54. In ten years, we have NEVER made Banshee and Sunfire. Is it so strange that some of the main characters of Tekken were not in the first two series? Marvel Minimates fans probably think this discussion is hilarious. Heck, even Street Fighter fans had to wait six years for Guile.

As far as Rufus goes, I LOVE Rufus -- the Minimate, anyway. Everyone has their favorite Street Fighter characters (Dudley, anyone?), and I'm sure somewhere someone is thrilled that we made Rufus. We always try to make visually interesting Minimates over boring Minimates, and in this case it seems to have disappointed some people, so on behalf of DST, I apologize. I hope the 12 Tekken characters and however many Street Fighter characters we WERE able to make still bring you some enjoyment.

Thank you Zach, this is a very open and honest response, I actually feel like this explains the choices made in away I can finally accept and give full closer to this line in mind (I already accepted we’d never get more SF mates, but now I can accept why Rufus was made. I am at peace and can enjoy the f**k out the ones we did get fully now.)

and if we’re being perfectly honest, while I don’t display Murdok, Steve, or Lili (well, not on my minimate shelf, I gave her Red Ridding Hood’s hair and she lives on my Monster High shelf as a mini-Draculaura)... I do display Rufus, yes, I hate him... but you guys did a good job with the awful design you were given to work with. Would I trade him for literally ANY other character? In half-a-heartbeat. But does he look good with fellow D-listers Abel and C.Viper wondering where El Fuerte is? He sure does.

.....

and now TM2. Since you said earlier you didn’t know what Tekken was, I wanted to share with you a real, I swear to god, quote from Itagaki, the creator of Dead or Alive (you love Dead or Alive!) When Dead or Alive 3 was coming out, he was asked in an interview with Gamespy what his thoughts on the Tekken franchise were (DoA3 was making a then ‘crazy’ move to be an Xbox exclusive, while Tekken has been Playstation exclusive for most of it’s life and was at the time the popular 3D fighter)

What did Itagaki think of Tekken?

he said, and this is the real quote, “Tekken is a piece of shit"

DoA isn’t perfect, and Itagaki was later fired from Tecmo for sexually harassing female employees... but he was right about one thing.

EDIT: couldn’t find the article where he called it a piece of shit (but he did, trust me, and it was glorious) so in it’s place enjoy this list of his top 5 favorite and least favorite games (you can just skip to the least favorites, it’s AMAZING) http://teamninja.1up.com/features/itagaki-hit-list

Edited August 15, 2013 by dr baghead

[DSTZach]

I'd like to apologize to the Multiverse at large for my occasional lapses in professionalism. I usually try to discuss our thought processes without resorting to heavy sarcasm, and in this instance, I failed. I'm sure there have been other incidents. I need to remember that I am not as friendly with some of you as I am with others, and my comfort on this board does not mean I can forget my role as a representative of DST. Again, my apologies.

Now let's see this Monster High shelf, baghead!

[TM2 Dinobot]

(DoA3 was making a then ‘crazy’ move to be an Xbox exclusive, while Tekken has been Playstation exclusive for most of it’s life and was at the time the popular 3D fighter)

That right there explains it. I've never picked up a PS1/2/3 controller in my life.

Zach: Don't worry about it. Really. Yeah, okay, you may shoot your mouth off once in a while, but we pick because we love, just like you defend because you love. And TBH, you're rolling around in the mud with a bunch of pigs. You're gonna get dirty.

[DSTZach]

Yes, but most pigs won't get fired for being dirty. I'm the pig in the corner, perched on the fence.

[TM2 Dinobot]

Aww. Clean little piggy.

[Earlyfrost]

i personally dont mind it Zach if you get pissed or offended with some comments.

you work for the company, you prolly know everyone (and how they work hard to please most of the fans), and they're prolly like family. so i understand why you feel the need to defend them.

btw, i love the Lili minimate. I'm glad she got made.

[DSTZach]

I thought you might.

BTW, I was really pushing for the Stepford Cuckoos in the fan poll.

[Shanester]

Zach, its all good and I rather like it when you lay into one of us. I hate form letters and "standard company response" BS. I'm sure you get just as frustrated as the rest of us sometimes. One thing I have come to realize is that no matter how many characters we get from DST, it will never be enough and someone is always going to complain.

[youbastards]

Too bad this thread never got these levels of traffic when the 'mates were released, we might've been able to drum up a little more hype.

[Shanester]

Oh and in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM is TM2 a spokesman for this place...

[karamazov80]

TM2 is the sole voice of reason 'round here. Shane's just afraid. . .afraid of the truth!

[Earlyfrost]

I thought you might.

BTW, I was really pushing for the Stepford Cuckoos in the fan poll.

i was surprised a lot of people voted for them actually. i hope they get made some day, preferably in their all new x-men Marvel NOW uniforms