Star Trek - Reincarnated from the Genesis Planet!

[Politician]

I finally need to say it, Dolim is the worst Minimate of all time. Everything about the mate is wrong, the color, the detail, the tooling. It's just incredibly bad. Why we didn't get T'Pol or a Klingon instead will always confuse me. A bunch of people at DST had to look at that Dolim mate and literally say "This is ok, we will go forward with this." and it makes me so sad.

Also I said it in another thread, but when DST just threw all the captains together I knew we weren't getting anything else. I'm not even sure we're getting anything for the 50th Anny. It's either more repeats or nothing. It'll get replaced by some boxset from a low IQ tv show, or an irrelevant iOS game, or maybe another trashy indy comic.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Politician

[CBMM1]

These Minimates didn't sell well! It's been said 100 times. They made Captains. Those are the most recognizable characters and they ended up as peg-warmers. Of course DST is moving on to other things. You can't expect Star Trek (a show that wasn't even popular in the 60's with a current niche fan base) to have the longevity of MARVEL. Star Trek toys are notorious for not selling well.

Edited July 27, 2014 by CBMM1

[MisterPL]

Star Trek product did fine when it had a constant presence on TV. With any luck, a new Netflix series will help move merchandise. Obviously the Abrams flicks aren't driving toys sales but maybe he was right. Maybe Viacom should have put classic Trek on hiatus so people would be forced to focus on nuTrek.

[Politician]

These Minimates didn't sell well! It's been said 100 times. They made Captains. Those are the most recognizable characters and they ended up as peg-warmers. Of course DST is moving on to other things. You can't expect Star Trek (a show that wasn't even popular in the 60's with a current niche fan base) to have the longevity of MARVEL. Star Trek toys are notorious for not selling well.

Yikes this is a really bad post.

I don't remember Chuck or Zach saying they didn't sell well, maybe you could point that out. Everything I've read said they were unsure about what they would do next.

The Captains are not always the most recognizable characters on the show. More people are familiar with the TOS and TNG cast moreso than DS9, VOY and ENT. I didn't have peg-warmers in San Diego or Los Angeles, is this something you're saying for YOUR area and making a blanket statement for?

Star Trek struggled in its last year of TOS then went on to have movies and more merch tie-ins than almost any brand in history. Its popularity and impact is engrained in everyday culture, moreso than any other brand. The way your post reads, it sounds like you're unaware that there was Star Trek shows in constant syndication from the late 80's to mid 2000's.

"Niche fan base" is pretty bad too, they have Star Trek conventions around the country that sell out, hardly seems niche at all. Movies and tv shows pretty much throughout the 70's until now that did well. I don't get your scope of what IS longevity then, especially comparing Marvel to Star Trek, which by itself is very narrow. Marvel is a comic company, outsourcing its saturday cartoon shows to other companies while Star Trek was in the movie and tv business. You're compaing apples and oranges at that point.

Also where do you figure Star Trek toys are "notorious" for not selling well? Seems like a blanket statement for the JJ Trek stuff and not the merch in the 90's that was wildly popular.

No hard feelings but next time you want to get into all this, you should know what you're talking about first.

[stack32]

They were unsure of what to do next because the sales weren't strong enough to make another series a lock. I'm pretty sure that was in an Ask DST though maybe Zach mentioned it.

You guys keep hanging on to 90's action figure sales to prove that Star Trek is a big seller but that was a long time ago. It's been 15 years since DS9 ended, longer for TNG. It's obviously not moving product the same way now. You can complain about the character mix, but if you need perfect character selection to keep a line alive then there's probably not much life there to begin with.

[Politician]

They were unsure of what to do next because the sales weren't strong enough to make another series a lock. I'm pretty sure that was in an Ask DST though maybe Zach mentioned it.

You guys keep hanging on to 90's action figure sales to prove that Star Trek is a big seller but that was a long time ago. It's been 15 years since DS9 ended, longer for TNG. It's obviously not moving product the same way now. You can complain about the character mix, but if you need perfect character selection to keep a line alive then there's probably not much life there to begin with.

Ok but find me where that's said, otherwise you're just speculating and I'm not sold on your word.

Using the 90's toy sales is to make the point that the merch was hot, that it has legs, no one is "hanging on" to it, you're reaching for that one.

Also I'm wondering where someone said "the perfect character selection" or if this is just your phrase incorrectly projected onto how others felt about the line?

[stack32]

If you're that worried about it find it yourself because I don't care enough to go searching for it. The piles of clearanced minimates and lack of action on a second series speak pretty clearly.

Perfect character selection is my phrase. You may not like it but that's exactly what I see you guys arguing. "We all know Trek is a sales juggernaut so if it fails it must be DST's fault." Which conveniently leaves aside the possibility that Trek has dwindled to a niche property when it comes to moving action figures.

[Politician]

If you're that worried about it find it yourself because I don't care enough to go searching for it. The piles of clearanced minimates and lack of action on a second series speak pretty clearly.

Perfect character selection is my phrase. You may not like it but that's exactly what I see you guys arguing. "We all know Trek is a sales juggernaut so if it fails it must be DST's fault." Which conveniently leaves aside the possibility that Trek has dwindled to a niche property when it comes to moving action figures.

"Worried about it" again you're just putting words in my mouth. If you're going to say it's because of sales, all I'm asking is that you show me where that was said. If not, then don't say it lmao.

YOUR phrase, that's your explanation and your opinion on it, not anyone elses, remember that for next time because it's important you know the difference. You're most likely not a Star Trek fan so you probably do narrowly see it as a niche thing, that's fine if you think that but using it as an argument is pretty ignorant because you'd be basing it solely on your opinion of it and not a broader scope of what the brand means in terms of movies and merch.

I'm not saying sales of the line were excellent but every Ask DST I've seen and things from Zach I've heard never specifically say sales. Until that's directly said it'd be best to not claim to know what's going on or say the brand isn't as profitable as it was.

[CBMM1]

I'm going to make this post quick for no other reason than that I am in the process of leaving SDCC.

1. As stack32 supported it has been stated that sales were not GREAT. Perhaps not exactly BAD but not successful enough to warrant another wave. They DID say they were unsure but I think the fact that we haven't heard anything by now speaks for itself.

2. The original Star Trek did not have good ratings in the end and as you said TOS and TNG are the more popular shows. Why do you think some of the other had such short lifespans.

3. I compare Star Trek to Marvel because we are talking about toys here. DST has stated that A LOT of their customers are kids. If you walk up to most kids today and say "Who's Captain Picard?", they probably don't know. If you ask the same of Spider-Man or Iron Man, they definitely know. The only Star Trek characters most kids know are the ones from JJ's movies. Even then they wouldn't recognize the Kirk/Khan 2-pack outside of the names.

4. When I said Trek toys are notoriouy bad sellers I Was talking about current sales. Do you know why I don't talk about sales from 15 years ago? Because it's not 15 years ago. I think when toys from a popular movie can't sell well to kids, it's unlikely past versions will sell any better.

I'm not trying to say I don't want more Star Trek. Trust me, I do. I just think everyone needs to recognize that at this point, the line is dead in the water. I do hope that's not going to be the case forever though.

Edited July 27, 2014 by CBMM1

[stack32]

YOUR phrase, that's your explanation and your opinion on it, not anyone elses, remember that for next time because it's important you know the difference. You're most likely not a Star Trek fan so you probably do narrowly see it as a niche thing, that's fine if you think that but using it as an argument is pretty ignorant because you'd be basing it solely on your opinion of it and not a broader scope of what the brand means in terms of movies and merch.

I'll put my Trek fandom up against anyone here in a heartbeat. I'm well acquainted with the movies and merchandise. I'd love to be able to buy more Trek minimates but I'm not so blind as to miss the blatantly obvious signs of decline in the overall Trek brand.

If you're so concerned with how others are mischaracterizing your opinion, maybe you should actually state it.

[Politician]

YOUR phrase, that's your explanation and your opinion on it, not anyone elses, remember that for next time because it's important you know the difference. You're most likely not a Star Trek fan so you probably do narrowly see it as a niche thing, that's fine if you think that but using it as an argument is pretty ignorant because you'd be basing it solely on your opinion of it and not a broader scope of what the brand means in terms of movies and merch.

I'll put my Trek fandom up against anyone here in a heartbeat. I'm well acquainted with the movies and merchandise. I'd love to be able to buy more Trek minimates but I'm not so blind as to miss the blatantly obvious signs of decline in the overall Trek brand.

If you're so concerned with how others are mischaracterizing your opinion, maybe you should actually state it.

Overall decline like what? DST does other Star Trek merch that does well, I see Star Trek themed merch in all pretty much every place toys are sold, there's conventions that sell out around the country. The DVD and blu-ray sales on the shows and movies is good, all tv shows are currently on Netflix, there's an active movie franchise. What small corner of the world do you live in?

The last part of what you said is just grasping, I already stated my opinions, if you can't read them or choose to ignore them that's fine, just don't pretend to be witty about it.

[stack32]

I'm sorry, I made the mistake of taking you seriously when I knew better. I won't do it again.

[CBMM1]

DST's other products that sell VERY WELL are their ships that are aimed at adult collectors. It's a whole different market.

[DSTZach]

We aim all of our Star Trek product at the same audience, because there isn't currently a kid audience for Star Trek (have you seen the new movies?), but yes, the Minimates did not do as well as we had hoped, at TRU or specialty. Chuck has said it at panels and in Ask DST, and I have said it here, too.

If the Captains had sold well, we absolutely would have done more. Absolutely. It was never intended to be one and done, but it was certainly intended to be our one best shot. The assortment was designed for maximum appeal, which is why there was a different show lead in every set, and a different alien in almost every set. Sure, we could have made T'Pol to go with Archer, but given that the short-packed Janeway and 7 of 9 lingered at TRU, I don't know that that would have improved sales. Sorry people didn't like Dolim. I personally had never heard of him, but I never watched much Enterprise. A Klingon would have been cool!

We may do more, but we may wait until there is some movement on the property. We're developing new role play items, starships and figures, but those are proven sellers, while Minimates seem to need something extra to move sets. Blame whoever you like for that state of affairs, but that's the current reality.

[elmeaux]

while Minimates seem to need something extra to move sets.

You need something to move Star Trek Minimates? The answer is obvious.

[youbastards]

[broken record]Drop the 2-Packs and just release annual full Bridge Crew Boxsets![/broken record]

Coordinate the release with themed boxsets or blind bag assortments with corresponding creatures that pertain to that year's Bridge Crew (Salt Vampire, Harry Mudd for Original...Q, Borgs for Next Gen...etc.)

This way, collectors that just want the bridge crew will be set with a single purchase, but those that want aliens and supporting characters will still have an option for that as well.

[hellpop]

Chuck said something interesting in the panel this weekend, which I think is germane to this discussion:

Movies are generally small universes so that is perfect for 4-packs.

Deep universes are good for 2-packs.

So really depends on depth of universe and the retailers.

I think the thinking has been that Star Trek has a "deep universe", but let's face it, at this point it simply can't carry a wave of two-packs. I understand the thinking with the Captains & Aliens sets, but making characters from the niche shows was never a very good idea, even if the theme worked. I agree with YB that bridge crew box sets would have been the way to go, although even then it's not a shoo-in.

As far as sales go, Chuck has definitely said that the last few waves of the original Minimates line sold very poorly. Unfortunately, I just don't think Star Trek has the footprint it once did. And I guess the crossover between Trekkies and Minimate fans just isn't that strong.

Edited July 28, 2014 by hellpop

[MisterPL]

Chuck said something interesting in the panel this weekend, which I think is germane to this discussion:

Movies are generally small universes so that is perfect for 4-packs.

Deep universes are good for 2-packs.

So really depends on depth of universe and the retailers.

I think the thinking has been that Star Trek has a "deep universe", but let's face it, at this point it simply can't carry a wave of two-packs.

By that logic, Lost in Space is a deep universe yet we can't get more than two characters out of it.

[CBMM1]

If I'm not mistaken, the LIS 2-pack was released along with the Jay/Bob 2-pack to test the wafers. Perhaps LIS wasn't as big a seller as Jay/Bob. That was evident at this year's SDCC when most a whole peg of Jay/Bob sets sold and not even close to the same amount of LIS.

[Mystery Man]

[broken record]Drop the 2-Packs and just release annual full Bridge Crew Boxsets![/broken record]

Coordinate the release with themed boxsets or blind bag assortments with corresponding creatures that pertain to that year's Bridge Crew (Salt Vampire, Harry Mudd for Original...Q, Borgs for Next Gen...etc.)

This way, collectors that just want the bridge crew will be set with a single purchase, but those that want aliens and supporting characters will still have an option for that as well.

THIIIIIS.

[tones]

all right, enough of this...MAKE IT SO!

seriously, I'm not letting it go

Edited July 31, 2014 by tones

[MisterPL]

By the time the 50th anniversary rolls around, maybe a "Best of" series would be in order for those just jumping on board. Offer some themed 4-packs for veterans.

[DSTZach]

Lost in Space got half a four-pack. I think we are treating that as a shallow universe, like Desperately Seeking Susan.

Jay Bob and Pulp Fiction we always planned as box sets. We started off with two-packs of the films' most famous duos, not to test the waters, but to get an inexpensive, essential introductory set into the hands of retailers and fans.

Star Trek was meant to be 8 essential introductory sets, but in hindsight maybe we should have gone deeper and picked a crew or two. Not sure what TRU wanted out of the assortment.

[MisterPL]

Star Trek was meant to be 8 essential introductory sets, but in hindsight maybe we should have gone deeper and picked a crew or two. Not sure what TRU wanted out of the assortment.

For what it's worth, I thought the Legacy assortment was exactly what the line needed; variety. With the arguable exceptions of nuTrek and TAS, there was something in there for any Trek collector. Maybe crew 4-packs are the way to go. I'm sure the 50th anniversary will give DST another opportunity to boldly try what they haven't tried before.

Lost in Space got half a four-pack. I think we are treating that as a shallow universe, like Desperately Seeking Susan.

Masterpiece of understatement.

(Sorry. Had to. Bygones.)

[Jatta Pake]