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TRU Wave 13...IS OUT NOW!


Jatta Pake

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Someone needs to make that Jim Lee poster a minimate reality. I would, but I just traded away my Meggan along with a few others.

As soon as we get Guido, Havok, Polaris, 90's Warpath, Multiple Man, X-Factor Wolfsbane i'll get right on it (hint hint, dst ;) )

I'm kinda blown away that New Mutants is so close to being finished. Of all the line-ups from the X-Men's history, i really didn't think we'd see the New Mutants (or Excalibur) before the completion of X-Force, 90's Blue & Gold X-men,or 90's X-Factor.

Still - i can't wait to get my hands on this wave.

Thanks for the pics & reviews Lurch :)

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I'm kinda blown away that New Mutants is so close to being finished. Of all the line-ups from the X-Men's history, i really didn't think we'd see the New Mutants (or Excalibur) before the completion of X-Force, 90's Blue & Gold X-men,or 90's X-Factor.

Who are we missing from the 90's Blue & Gold X-men teams? I'm pretty sure we already have everyone from both of those teams.

Edited by MisterMiracle
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I was thinking of Colossus - but the teams can be put together using GSXM Colossus. He looks a little out of whack next to some of the more modern minimates, but he'd do.

I'm waiting on wave 47 Colossus to complete my Gold Team.

And although they were never officially on the rosters, i'd kind of count Banshee & Forge as supporting cast members of those teams before the went off into Gen X & X-Factor respectively.

EDIT: I Think Revanche was also on the Blue roster for a while, but i'm not really counting. Nor am i holding my breath until DST released her as a minimate. :P

Edited by Nessex
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I was thinking of Colossus - but the teams can be put together using GSXM Colossus. He looks a little out of whack next to some of the more modern minimates, but he'd do.

I'm waiting on wave 47 Colossus to complete my Gold Team.

And although they were never officially on the rosters, i'd kind of count Banshee & Forge as supporting cast members of those teams before the went off into Gen X & X-Factor respectively.

EDIT: I Think Revanche was also on the Blue roster for a while, but i'm not really counting. Nor am i holding my breath until DST released her as a minimate. :P

They did release Revanche! She came with Lockjaw.

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Yeah, I was gonna say... as far as I can tell the Blue and Gold teams are all accounted for in the correct costumes, unless we're gonna nitpick only having a White costume 90s Storm and not a Black costume 90s Storm.

Though I certainly wouldn't say no to Forge or Banshee. All you have to do is read the want list in my sig to know I never say no to new X-Men, lol. Though I'd prefer Banshee in his Green costume to his 90s standard X-Men uniform. I try to avoid the standard X-Men uniform wherever possible in my displays... I like everyone to look unique (not possible for a couple X-Men, but most)...

I've never really had a problem with Giant-Sized Colossus. I think he holds up fairly well as older minimates go. He's got alot of detail in his paint apps for such an old minimate (Side effect of the way his metal skin looks I guess. Can't get away with flat silver.)

I think Emma and Mystique are in much more dire need of an Update. Doubly so now that Colossus is... ya'know... getting one. lol...

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EDIT: I Think Revanche was also on the Blue roster for a while, but i'm not really counting. Nor am i holding my breath until DST released her as a minimate. :P
They did release Revanche! She came with Lockjaw.

That was actually Psylocke. Same body - different Psyche. Revanche looked more like this in her Blue team days:

197481-12118-revanche_large.jpg103895-7644-psylocke.jpg

Never really got the loose perm look :confused:

But as i said - she's a pretty minor/supporting member of the Blue team, so i wouldn't expect to see her as a minimate . . .

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Alert- Miry is about to lurch things even further off topic.

This is a long, long, long standing gripe... but the whole Besty/Kwannon, English/Asian thing is still about stupid. It has never, ever made much sense beyond Jim Lee wanted to draw a hot chesty asian chick, and Rogue was too popular to change, but now we have to make up a story to explain it. Seige Perilous idea not working for ya? Huh... How about body swapping... right... partial body swapping? Ah screw it, she's asian now, get over it! It was lame then, it continues to be inexplicably lame now, especially since she's died and been reborn a couple more times, but still comes back asian. (Why would her brother brought her back to life in anything but her original form is beyond me, oh right, hot asian chick reason) Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against hot asian women at all. They are nice to look at, even in comics form. But if they really felt the X-Men needed representation in that area, just make a new character then. Don't turn a character that predated her X-men appearances by several years Japanese for the hell of it. You might as well "devolve" a simian into a feline... oh wait...

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Alert- Miry is about to lurch things even further off topic.

This is a long, long, long standing gripe... but the whole Besty/Kwannon, English/Asian thing is still about stupid. It has never, ever made much sense beyond Jim Lee wanted to draw a hot chesty asian chick, and Rogue was too popular to change, but now we have to make up a story to explain it. Seige Perilous idea not working for ya? Huh... How about body swapping... right... partial body swapping? Ah screw it, she's asian now, get over it! It was lame then, it continues to be inexplicably lame now, especially since she's died and been reborn a couple more times, but still comes back asian. (Why would her brother brought her back to life in anything but her original form is beyond me, oh right, hot asian chick reason) Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against hot asian women at all. They are nice to look at, even in comics form. But if they really felt the X-Men needed representation in that area, just make a new character then. Don't turn a character that predated her X-men appearances by several years Japanese for the hell of it. You might as well "devolve" a simian into a feline... oh wait...

I've always felt the same way. That whole schtick kind of makes the character/those stories hard to enjoy, even when you're re-re-reading them.

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The body-swapping bollocks had already happened by the time i came to comics, so i just accepted it as back-story. That's what happened & Psylocke was already Japanese when i met her, so i didn't question it much.

I am, however, still deeply p!ssed off about cat-beast. I imagine the eye-rolling disbelief i feel about cat-beast is the way you feel about the whole Psyvanche debacle.

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Psylocke was Asian when I first started reading comics too, but after looking into her back-story I became really interested in the British "version" of the character. Probably something to do with her "britishness." Even though she was essentially the same character I felt she was written slightly differently depending on the body she was in....just my opinion. I feel in Uncanny X-Force Remender has managed to strike a balance and give some cohesion to the character for the first time in a long time. Sometimes I would like the British body back, but for me now it's more about how she is written than the body she is in.

Anyway....I can't wait to get Magma and Dani!

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Though I'd prefer Banshee in his Green costume to his 90s standard X-Men uniform. I try to avoid the standard X-Men uniform wherever possible in my displays... I like everyone to look unique (not possible for a couple X-Men, but most)...

This. Plus, his green uniform would allow me to put together a Generation X sub-section on my shelf (even though he'd be the only one in the right costume, lol). Oh, gods, would I love GX Minimates. Pantsuit Emma, Jubilee with bangs (and a red/gold costume to match the rest of the team), Skin, Mondo, Synch, M, Husk, Chamber (removable translucent face fire, black turtleneck tampo/paint underneath), PENANCE :wub:, Emplate -- GATEWAY!! :P

The body-swapping bollocks had already happened by the time i came to comics, so i just accepted it as back-story. That's what happened & Psylocke was already Japanese when i met her, so i didn't question it much.

This. I'm fine with it. Always have been.

And while I grew up with blue ape Beast, and was initially hateful of cat Beast, I've really grown to love the "blue lion" look. I've got Astonishing Beast (& Emma) on display with the rest of the Jim Lee team (except Wolverine, Psylocke & Archangel, who are in their Kyle-Yost/Uncanny X-Force).

That's what I love about action figure shelves. There's no rule or law that you have to abide by any preset canon. You can make up your own continuity/mythology. Make your collection unique to you. And I take full advantage (with Transformers & DCU, too).

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Alert- Miry is about to lurch things even further off topic.

This is a long, long, long standing gripe... but the whole Besty/Kwannon, English/Asian thing is still about stupid. It has never, ever made much sense beyond Jim Lee wanted to draw a hot chesty asian chick, and Rogue was too popular to change, but now we have to make up a story to explain it. Seige Perilous idea not working for ya? Huh... How about body swapping... right... partial body swapping? Ah screw it, she's asian now, get over it! It was lame then, it continues to be inexplicably lame now, especially since she's died and been reborn a couple more times, but still comes back asian. (Why would her brother brought her back to life in anything but her original form is beyond me, oh right, hot asian chick reason) Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against hot asian women at all. They are nice to look at, even in comics form. But if they really felt the X-Men needed representation in that area, just make a new character then. Don't turn a character that predated her X-men appearances by several years Japanese for the hell of it. You might as well "devolve" a simian into a feline... oh wait...

KaneClap.gif

Psylocke was Asian when I first started reading comics too, but after looking into her back-story I became really interested in the British "version" of the character. Probably something to do with her "britishness." Even though she was essentially the same character I felt she was written slightly differently depending on the body she was in....just my opinion. I feel in Uncanny X-Force Remender has managed to strike a balance and give some cohesion to the character for the first time in a long time. Sometimes I would like the British body back, but for me now it's more about how she is written than the body she is in.

I think you are absolutely right. She was always supposedly attractive (I think the first version was supposed to be a model), but the original Betsy was generally pretty emotive, and often really happy, going back to the old Cap Britain series:

betsyb.jpg

psylocke.gif

Asian Psylocke was usually serious and often gloomy and reserved. Demonstrating more of a stereotypical Asian personality IMO. She also wore less clothing all the time. I also think Lee should have just created a new character if he was so intent on doing an Asian character with that personality and ninja skills. The major thing she carried over was her psychic abilities, though the psy-knife thing wasn't even old Betsy (who had the psy-butterfly thing going).

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Actually Betsy was a pre-cog first, and developed telepathy later. The pre-cog abilities have all but been forgotten. Her telepathy has come and gone, replaced with the more physical telekinetics at times. Right now she has the X-Female-Psy standard telepathy and TK mix that X-writers love so. The main thing that makes her different from Rachel Grey is Betsy uses her powers mostly to enhance her martial arts skills, like forming psychic knives or tk katanas. Let me reiterate- it's Betsy's ninja theme that has come to define her.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for character evolution, and there have been efforts over the years to restore Betsy to more of her original personality. But the pre-cog powers and the butterfly effect are gone, as is the woman who was afraid of getting into another one-on-one physical fight ever since Slaymaster gouged out her eyes. It's why she wore armor in the Ouback when she could no longer avoid going into the field. So to see her over that fear is a good thing, but I wish she did not have to become an asian ninja girl to acomplish it.

But I certainly understand those of you who have only known her as an asian woman not quite understanding my objection.

As they have backed off the over sized proportions and feline legs of the original transformation, I have slowly found cat-Beast less objectionable. At present, all of Hank's simian powers are still in tact. And from the skull down, the only different is that cat-Beast is shaggier. The current head, which looks like a kind of pug/cat with the ears replacing the traditional "pointy hair", is a vast improvement over Quietly's original design. Still think it looks silly, and even as used to it as I've become, thinking why Hank was changed still galls me something fierce. No to mention Dark Hank appearances taunting me. So yeah, I think the whole Cat-Beast is another stupid idea lead more from what the rockstar artist flt like changing that anything in the story. And that fans have to live with,

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Yeah, I don't know the ins and outs, but would imagine that during the period that led up to Image, guys like Todd McFarlane and Jim Lee had a ridiculous amount of influence. Guys like Jack Kirby, George Perez, John Byrne, and Frank Miller (among others) worked in what appears to have been genuine collaborations with the official writers of books they worked on, contributing to the plotting in often significant ways.

Edited by karamazov80
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All writers/artists collaborate. Even if one of them is new & untested and the other is a respected veteran, I'll guarantee that there hasn't been a comic made where one of them said "this is the way it's going to be, deal with it" and the other one was just along for the ride. It's a collaborative field.

I just don't find it particularly fair that things people don't like are being blamed squarely on the artists with no proof that they were 100% responsible for it in the first place.

Not to mention, if the E-I-C doesn't like it, it doesn't matter how much control or influence either writer or artist have, it wouldn't see print. I wouldn't hold Straczynski responsible for Brand New Day, when Quesada himself has admitted to being behind it, and JMS has gone on record saying that he didn't want to do it.

It's not like Jim Lee was sitting in his den, plotting about how he could destroy Psylocke for the fans, and that everyone in the universe was powerless to stop him.

With the exception of everyone here hating Jim Lee (and apparently, everything that happened in or came from the 90's) with a fiery passion, I've heard more negative feedback from the rest of the world about the outlandish things Chris Claremont has done to characters. How about blame him? Some of the weird-@$$-sh** that Grant Morrison is responsible for, and we're going after Quitely with pitchforks? :rolleyes: And, heck, I prefer his large, brutish blue lion over the pug (apt description, Miry) Beast that a lot of artists nowadays are drawing him as.

Edited by TENIME_art
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Well I wouldn't blame things squarely with an artist in those cases I'm discussing (and again, I'm not at all familiar with Lee's real role in doing X-Men). After all, collaboration entails shared credit and blame. But I'm not sure that ultimate responsibility for credit/blame should go with an editor-in-chief just because they have veto power. If I were a writer, I wouldn't want that level of micro-management over something like the decision to turn Psylocke into an Asian ninja master. In some instances you'll have more overbearing editors than in others, but oftentimes I would hope that they will give writers and artists artistic license to do what they're paid to do, so long as it falls within the strategic framework of the company.

Edited by karamazov80
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I wouldn't say everyone here hates everything from Jim Lee and the 90's. I'm overall a fan of both. Jim Lee is a great artist, and his work on X-Men is legendary for a reason. I was just saying that there were quite a few artists, Jim Lee included, then that were granted more creative control than they should have been. They were doing more than collaborating: they were controlling, doing everything but scripting and detailed character development. But I honestly don't know how much JL had to do with Betsy (didn't that happen in the late 80's, before his prime?).

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Yes, there's always writer/artist collaboration. As well there should be. If you have two creative individuals, then each should respect the suggestions or ideas of the other. But let's stick to the two cases at hand...

Chris Claremont is to blame for Betsy too. He's lost his way on the character, and never seemed sure how to write her. She started in Cap. Britan as a rich spoiled party girl who developed powers and matured. She tried to take her brother's placeduring one of his absences (I beleive he tried to quit altogether) and was nearly killed for it. This left her afraid of upclose combat situations. A series of events lead her to join the X-Men, and start to get over her fear, and then Claremont wasn't sure what to do next. Betsy became more and more reserved, serious, almost matronly. Her non physical power kept her off the front lines, and her function was begining to be a kill joy. Claremont hit on the Lady Mandarin idea, and the knives, Jim Lee drew some sketches of her as an asian Lady M. Legend has it ninja girl Psylocke's post Mandarin look was from some character design ideas of Lee's that predated his X-Men work. (This happens a lot, Nightcrawler is fameously one of Cockrum's unused LoSH ideas) Lacking a better idea, Claremont was onboard and the explaination was going to be the Siege Perilous turned her asian and the ninja skills were "programed" by the Mandarin. While hot asian Betsy proved popular, the origin did not and it was retconned during in the post Claremont years. So yes, I was being too unfair to Lee to put the blame squarely on him. And if Lee had not had the idea, then it's likely Betsy would have gone the way of Allison and Longshot and not reappeared for a few years until he could figure out what to do next with her.

Cat-Beast is entirely Frank Quietly's faunt... he said so himself. In one of the little promo freebies that used to come out in comics shops meant to hype he and Morrison's New X-Men direction, there was a section in the back with lots of character design scketches complete with notes by Quietly. He talked about the directive to lose the masks and spandex that came down from the PTB as a result of the movie. And he said he knew he had to change the Beast's look because classic Beast looked too much like a maskless Wolverine in his opinion. So since he was given free reign in his designs (as long as they were "movie style-ish), Frank remade Hank into the image of a French production of Beauty and the Beast he liked- a giant lion-man. Morrison liked the idea, the secondary mutation idea was cooked up, and the rest is a spike in my bloodpressure. So not only did the guy sitting at the number 2 spot on my all time favorite comics characters list get completely remade into a form that initially robbed him of most of his familiar powers, (Hank himself stated he was having to relearn fine motor control on his hands, and his feet were now paws, and that he was too big to move quickly) but for a guy who suffers from Wolverine fatigue, to hear from the source that these radical changes were done so Hank would no longer resemble a maskless Logan gets my blood boiling. It's one of those moment you wished someone would have stood up for Beast, maybe suggesting the good Dr. grow his hair out even longer, as was done in X3, or the WatXM cartoon. But no one did, and damage was done. And like asian Betsy, cat-Beast is proving popular enough to be sticking around, after some design refining that's aloud Hank to keep all his old powers, plus some new cat powers.

I don't hate the 90's any more than any other period. Sure there were several craptastic ideas that happened then (Clones, Onslaughts, Crossings just to name a few) But then the late 70's/early 80's feature all the fun that was the Avengers after #204 until #220, several fialed cosmic hero books which earner their fate, Doc Ock trying to marry Aunt May... yep plenty of objectional ideas there too.

But among the myriad of things in comics that bother me, Asian Psylocke and Cat-Beast are two of them. And while it's nice to see some others agree with me, I certainly understand if most don't. Your free to post your disenting opinion, not matter how wrong it may be.

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