youbastards Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Refresh my memory, Was it "Kaine" or "Ben Reilly" the Spider-clone that was dropped in the smoke stack way back in ASM #149? If I remember, Kaine was the "first" clone, but was never showed in comics until the 90's clone saga, right? Ben Reilly was the first clone Peter Parker actually encountered (ASM #149)? I really loved the idea behind the Clone Saga, the complexity and potential for character development, but it just wasn't executed very well. I still wish Marvel had stuck to their guns and stayed with "Parker" as the clone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyd Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Refresh my memory, Was it "Kaine" or "Ben Reilly" the Spider-clone that was dropped in the smoke stack way back in ASM #149? If I remember, Kaine was the "first" clone, but was never showed in comics until the 90's clone saga, right? Ben Reilly was the first clone Peter Parker actually encountered (ASM #149)? I really loved the idea behind the Clone Saga, the complexity and potential for character development, but it just wasn't executed very well. I still wish Marvel had stuck to their guns and stayed with "Parker" as the clone. Ben Reilly was dropped into the smokestack. Like you said, Kaine was the first clone, but we never saw him until the 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youbastards Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Cool, thanks for confirming Boyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vox Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 One thing I liked from the Clone days (besides the Scarlet Spidey costume).. was a story where Ben moved to Salt Lake City.. and eventually Kaine tracked him down. As an SLC native, it was cool to have a story in my town.. (extremely rare). I liked when Superman and Batman showed up in Ogden and SLC recently too.. that stuff just never happens. As for more variants of the Spiderman concept in Minimate form.. BRING IT ON! I stopped being bugged by all the spideys (pun intended) long ago. My hall of Spideys is becoming my favorite minimate display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I thought the Clone Saga was a great concept... just very poorly executed. Marvel dragged it on for way too long. Screw Kang, can we please have a Clone Saga Minimate wave & multiple box sets please DST!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Ben Reilly was dropped into the smokestack. Like you said, Kaine was the first clone, but we never saw him until the 90's. Tiny clarification, Ben Reilly was the clone that work up at the base of the smokestack thinking he was the real Peter Parker only to find Peter had already gone home after "their" battle. He went on to remake himself as Ben Reilly. They actually found the charred skeleton of a clone inside the smokestack. At some point, another switch was made, and "Ben" was replaced with a dead clone, which Peter thought had died in the Jackal's bomb blast. The suppossedly also dead Jackal placed "Ben" at the base of the smokestack afterword. Or at least that's what seems to have happened. Poor execution of the story lead to a LOT of confusion for us poor readers as to what happened when. You know, if they would have skipped the whole which is the real Spider-Man angle, I would have perfectly happy to see Peter and MJ moving to the West Coast somewhere to start their family and Ben continue as Spider-Man. May would still be dead, but then so would Norman and Harry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSTZach Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 New Scarlet Spidey in a random Spidey box set, plus a Spider Island wave with complementary Clone Saga TRU wave please Zach. Buy all of the leftover six-armed Spider-Man figures and we'll talk. (How have we not made the Jackal yet?) I object to the statement that if an idea was any good, it would be 616. Granted, I didn't like a few of the Ultimate books, but Ultimate Spider-Man was solid, and actually improved on some old Spidey storylines, and Ultimates Volume 1 and 2 were pretty great, even if only from a visual standpoint. (As much as I love old Nick Fury, Ultimates gave us Samuel L. Jackson as Fury, so yay.) If the existence of Miles Morales means that they'll be able to come up with new stories that aren't based on old 616 stories, so much the better. Ultimate Peter was just a young Peter Parker -- Miles is truly an alternate reality Spider-Man. The 616 is still there for Peter people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murderofcrows Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 i still stand behind my statement ultimate = garbage. 616 isn't perfect but the worst 616 is still better than the best ultimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystery Man Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) Buy all of the leftover six-armed Spider-Man figures and we'll talk. (How have we not made the Jackal yet?) I agree! How HAVE you not made the Jackal yet? So which figure do I have to buy all the leftovers of to get Kang? This is coming from somebody who "supported the line" way back when by buying 16 Riot Spidey 2-packs. Yeah. THAT one. Edited November 11, 2011 by Mystery Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadpool Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 ultimate = awesomeness ill admit that when ultimatum happened (and most of the 1st 'revamp' after it) sucked and gave me stomach cramps, but now that they have brought it back...its amazing, miles' story is a truly great, fun read. Ultimates is visually stunning and the story is some classic avengers kicking ass stuff. The new X-men series is really good as well and has a lot of awesome little things surrounding it, and finally...hawkeye...one of the best series ive ever read, art is amazing, writing is amazing, XORN is amazing...no complaints at all.... ....DST please make more ultimate stuff now o.o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlecat Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 616 isn't perfect but the worst 616 is still better than the best ultimate. Have you read the new Ultimate Spider-Man series? Because I've read Sentry: Fallen Sun, Shadowland, One More Day, and that crap where Gwen Stacy had Norman Osborn's evil babies, and that's just off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj87 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I've enjoyed what little Ultimate stuff I've read, but my word... lets have every important character from the proper universe before other ultimate characters, that way I can have stopped buying by then. yeah?... YEAH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 My objection to Ultimate stuff started when it started to leak over into the 616. Ultimates revived all the Hank-Pym's-an-unreliable-wife-beating-screw-up crap that Stern, Englehart and Busiek had worked so hard to move Hank past and brought it back into the 616. I cannot tell you how much that irritated me. On the other hand, delaying killing Uncle Ben long enough for the audience to get to know him, like him, and thus feel more of the impact when he inevitably dies was genius. And there were momments that were similarly inspired over it's first few years. Then someone decided it was too much like the 616, so Loeb was hired to make sure that was no longer the case... and boy did he. I prefer the 616 by far... even when they do things like selling mariages to the devil, Teen Tony, having Stark and Richards build a killer Thor clone, M-Day, Norman not being still dead, and more other truely bad ideas than I could list. Ultimates, even at it's best is a well developed What If to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murderofcrows Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 in my defense i am an old timer. I am happiest when we get classic 616 characters i would take a nighthawk, black knight, or hell cat over the entire ulitmate universe collected mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImABarRoomHero Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 in my defense i am an old timer. I am happiest when we get classic 616 characters i would take a nighthawk, black knight, or hell cat over the entire ulitmate universe collected mates. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlecat Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) in my defense i am an old timer. I am happiest when we get classic 616 characters i would take a nighthawk, black knight, or hell cat over the entire ulitmate universe collected mates. Hey I might think some of the comics are good, but I hope DST keep the Ulti-Mates at a minimum too. I've liked the ones we've gotten, but same as with the movie waves I'd always rather get a few more 616 mates instead. Although at this point we've had more Age of Apocalypse characters than Ultimate ones, so it's not too big of a trend really. Edited November 11, 2011 by battlecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 New Scarlet Spidey in a random Spidey box set, plus a Spider Island wave with complementary Clone Saga TRU wave please Zach. Buy all of the leftover six-armed Spider-Man figures and we'll talk. (How have we not made the Jackal yet?) I'm on it...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystery Man Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 More 616, plz. Ultimate can make for good reading at times, but so can 616 and they've been 'round longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 in my defense i am an old timer. I am happiest when we get classic 616 characters i would take a nighthawk, black knight, or hell cat over the entire ulitmate universe collected mates. Oh no doubt. I'd rather have Whirlwind, Toad, or even the Spot more than any Ultimate character you could name. (also an old timer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellpop Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 You know, if they would have skipped the whole which is the real Spider-Man angle, I would have perfectly happy to see Peter and MJ moving to the West Coast somewhere to start their family and Ben continue as Spider-Man. May would still be dead, but then so would Norman and Harry. I can understand that decision, though. The thinking at the time was that Ben needed to be the "legitimate" Spider-Man in order for people to accept him. Now, why they didn't think that folks would be much, much more upset with the idea that the Spider-Man they'd been reading about for, what, twenty years? wasn't the real Spider-Man is beyond me. For anyone that's interested in the Clone Saga and how it fell apart, Andrew Goletz has an amazing (no pun intended) blog about the subject, which goes through the entire thing issue by issue and includes insights from the creative and editorial teams. You can find it here: http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSTZach Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Although at this point we've had more Age of Apocalypse characters than Ultimate ones, so it's not too big of a trend really. Yeah, it's not like we're forcing Ultimates down your throats or anything. Chuck likes Spidey, the Miles costume is cool and the character was getting a lot of buzz, so we decided to give him a slot. ONE slot. The figure he's in a box with is 616. And Chuck is old-school, he goes DEEP on 616 (Stone Men, Sin-Eater, etc.), so I wouldn't worry about an all-Ultimate wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheul Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I wouldn't mind getting the rest of "The Ultimates" to round out the core guys we already have. Ult Hawkeye, Wasp, Armored Black Widow and Hank Pym are more than welcome in my collection. Creepy Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch would be cool too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundhog7s Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) so I wouldn't worry about an all-Ultimate wave. But, what if someone wanted one? Can't you people please everybody? I like the fact that you'll still throw out an Ultimate character every once in a while and I wish you'd throw out a 2-pack every now and then with some regular 616 waves. Just my opinion. ANd I'll add to the discussion that I love reading the Ultimate line because I only have to worry about one decade worth of bad ideas thrown in now and then instead of 5 decades of it. Plus, I can actually follow some of the titles without going broke or needing pages of backstory. And if you're going to blanket the whole Ultimate U. with the tag that nothing good has come of it then you obviously haven't read much of the titles. Edited November 11, 2011 by groundhog7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Although at this point we've had more Age of Apocalypse characters than Ultimate ones, so it's not too big of a trend really. Yeah, it's not like we're forcing Ultimates down your throats or anything. Chuck likes Spidey, the Miles costume is cool and the character was getting a lot of buzz, so we decided to give him a slot. ONE slot. The figure he's in a box with is 616. And Chuck is old-school, he goes DEEP on 616 (Stone Men, Sin-Eater, etc.), so I wouldn't worry about an all-Ultimate wave. Look at the sheer amount of 616 Minimates that we currently have and Battlecat & Zach are 100% right on target. We have a huge and deep (I know that just sounds wrong), well balanced 616 collection. We have a handful of Ultimate Mates at best. Maybe 1-2% at best of the overall collection. Yes we still have a few gaping holes in the 616 universe to fill (Kang, Whirlwind, The Brotherhood, Wrecking Crew, Mockingbird, Tigra, Songbird, Ghost to name a new) but we do have an amazing collection overall. MOC- that's a bit narrow minded of a statement in regards to the Ultimate titles. I am a firm believer of to each their own. I for one happen to really enjoy the Ultimate Universe, especially the current revamp. After years of reading 616 Spidey and tolerating a lot of bad story telling, Brand New Day broke my camels back. Having so many different writers voices in the mix in order to maintain the 3x a month schedule lost me. I shifted over to Ultimate Spidey who I've been with since issue 1. I don't knock those who stayed with 616, to each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadpool Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 im not saying that id have ultimate characters over 616 (well except hawkeye and xorn) im just saying i'd love some ultimate love as well, maybe in the form of a tru wave or boxset so it doesnt take the places of 616 characters in a normal wave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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