DCnU

[hellpop]

Liefeld has been sales kryptonite for quite awhile; I don't really understand what DC was thinking (other then that co-publisher Jim Lee has filled the books with his cronies) in giving him such a prominent role. It's like if NBC cast Urkle to save the Office. He does seem like a decent guy though (Liefeld, not Urkle).

I think there's three tiers of DC books right now: the flagship books (JLA, the Bat books, the Superman books, the GL books), which are still selling quite well; the steady performers (things like Batgirl, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, Animal Man), which are all holding onto their readers and selling very well based on those titles historical sales figures; and the rest, the also-rans at the bottom of the chart. I suspect those will keep turning over, churning like the bottom of an NFL roster. If DC can find one or two steady performers each time they introduce a new set of titles, they'll be fine.

Creatively, the big problem with both Marvel and DC these days (from what I can glean from industry news) is that both lines are entirely driven by editorial and not creative. It seems like a suffocating environment that will drive a lot of creators away.

[battlecat]

Creatively, the big problem with both Marvel and DC these days (from what I can glean from industry news) is that both lines are entirely driven by editorial and not creative. It seems like a suffocating environment that will drive a lot of creators away.

Don't follow the industry stuff that closely but I'm vaguely aware of the DC thing, Liefeld's not the only one who's quit lately I gather -- but what Marvel news are you talking about? Other than shoving movie Nick Fury into continuity, changing Hawkeye's costume and starting that crappy 'movie team' Avengers comic, I haven't noticed any books that feel particularly mandated or "fiddled with" by editorial. Most of the titles I've read lately have had creative-led, long-running storylines, ie. Fraction's Iron Man, Remender's X-Force and Venom, Slott's Spidey stuff, Waid's Daredevil, Hickman's F4/FF stuff, Aaron's X-stuff, Gage's Avengers Academy, etc etc. And of course letting Bendis do whatever he wants with Avengers and Ultimate Spidey (even the reboot of that was actually Bendis' idea, though editorial got blamed for it). I know many of those titles and runs are wrapping up for this soft reboot thing, but most of the creators seem to be staying at Marvel.

Whatever's going on at DC, Animal Man and Wonder Woman seem to have been spared thankfully, still really enjoying both. Supergirl and Superboy both went all to hell after the first arc though. Action Comics is alright, but I expected more after All-Star was so good.

[hellpop]

No, Marvel's just as driven from above these days. What, you think Avengers vs. X-Men developed organically?

At Marvel, there are a handful of creators (most of the guys you named above) that have carte blanche; for everyone else, forget about it. I mean, look at most of the Marvel Now announcements; see any new names in there? It's just reshuffling the same handful of names onto different titles. You're going to see more and more creators (like Kurt Busiek, Brian K. Vaughn, and Joe Casey) tired of the Big Two system going to other places. Image in particular is going to benefit.

Look, I'm not trying to pick on Marvel; DC's just as bad right now. For example, Brian Wood (at one time seen as a rising star at DC) made it known that only certain people were allowed to pitch New 52 titles, and he wasn't one of them. But nobody should think that Marvel is some kind of creative haven. Considering the terrible year they're having, I would expect them to be even less receptive to voices outside the "The Worthy", as I like to call them.

Back to DC... here's a good analysis by retailer Brian Hibbs on the New 52's first year:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=40504

[battlecat]

No, Marvel's just as driven from above these days. What, you think Avengers vs. X-Men developed organically?

Well, kind of, yeah? I mean the X-books have been slowly building to the Phoenix's return since they introduced Hope years ago, and the Avengers/X-Men antagonism has been built up bit by bit since Wanda, and Scott starting his own nation, etc. I think it's much more likely Bendis or Aaron or one of those other guys on your list pitched it at their story-planning retreat thing, than some mouse exec pronounced it from on high. The most I could see them saying is "have the Avengers in your event this year."

As for the rest, I'm just saying I've seen no big evidence of Marvel's editorial screwing over creative lately -- ie. no writers jumping ship and publically trashing Marvel, and no obvious fiddling (big changes in direction coming out of left field, etc) in the stories themselves, quite the opposite. Even with dismissing Marvel's list of "worthy" I mean, I'm not sure what the DC equivalent would be, just Morrison and Johns?

Also I'd think the shift to creator-owned books has to be driven by Kirkman making a bazillion dollars off one of his as much as anything.

[Punisher]

I had an itch to read some new comics, so I ordered the TPB volume 1's of Animal Man, Batman, Batwoman, and Frankenstein Agent of SHADE as my first "foray" into the New 52. I've only read Animal Man so far, but I absolutely loved it.

[Twisted Two-Face]

I had an itch to read some new comics, so I ordered the TPB volume 1's of Animal Man, Batman, Batwoman, and Frankenstein Agent of SHADE as my first "foray" into the New 52. I've only read Animal Man so far, but I absolutely loved it.

Being a total fanboy here, but go for Wonder Woman too. It's rare that you find a book with such amazing art AND writing (Batwoman is another), and the story is wonderful. Maybe read the first single if you're on the fence, but it's a wonderful series you likely won't regret.

Slight on-topic, her look is really growing on me. She needs to ditch the choker and maybe the rib stars, but it's a really sharp look (when not drawn by Jim Lee. Seriously, all of his designs look better by other artists) and i'll be fine if it sticks around. The silver isn't iconic but it's really powerful and just sort of works. Glad they ditched the possible pants design too.

[hellpop]

No, Marvel's just as driven from above these days. What, you think Avengers vs. X-Men developed organically?

Well, kind of, yeah? I mean the X-books have been slowly building to the Phoenix's return since they introduced Hope years ago, and the Avengers/X-Men antagonism has been built up bit by bit since Wanda, and Scott starting his own nation, etc. I think it's much more likely Bendis or Aaron or one of those other guys on your list pitched it at their story-planning retreat thing, than some mouse exec pronounced it from on high. The most I could see them saying is "have the Avengers in your event this year."

As for the rest, I'm just saying I've seen no big evidence of Marvel's editorial screwing over creative lately -- ie. no writers jumping ship and publically trashing Marvel, and no obvious fiddling (big changes in direction coming out of left field, etc) in the stories themselves, quite the opposite. Even with dismissing Marvel's list of "worthy" I mean, I'm not sure what the DC equivalent would be, just Morrison and Johns?

Also I'd think the shift to creator-owned books has to be driven by Kirkman making a bazillion dollars off one of his as much as anything.

Well, one guy I can think of that's been somewhat vocal about his dissatisfaction with Marvel is JMS. Hey, I'm not saying DC's well-run right now, by any means... but neither is Marvel. It's just not a great time to be a comics creator, at least not with the Big Two.

Speaking of Wonder Woman... looks like she's getting a new boyfriend:

http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/08/22/wonder-woman-and-superman-have-some-sex/

[battlecat]

Well, one guy I can think of that's been somewhat vocal about his dissatisfaction with Marvel is JMS. Hey, I'm not saying DC's well-run right now, by any means... but neither is Marvel. It's just not a great time to be a comics creator, at least not with the Big Two.

That's true, but wasn't most of that him and Quesada fighting over Spider-Man and Thor four or five years ago? Quesada hasn't been editor-in-chief for a year or two now, he's off doing all that movie/tv stuff, and JMS even came back to finally finish that Twelve mini a while back. I just don't see any indication of the same crap going on at Marvel as is apparently going on at DC right now -- don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's plenty of other crap at Marvel, but not on the level that it's driving creators out the door angry enough to make public statements against a major employer. But your mileage clearly does vary and that's fine

[Twisted Two-Face]

FINALLY, Jim Lee will be leaving Justice League and with issue 15 a new art team will take over: Ivan Reis and Joe Prado. Maybe now the book can be amazing, Ivan is AWESOME.

Can't wait for this now.

[Turtle]

Yeah, Justice League hasn't really impressed me so far. This is a welcome change. Oh, Action Comics #0 was exactly what I needed. AC and Superman have both failed to impress me, but AC#0 was really, really good. It's the issue #1 should have been, imo.

[hellpop]

Is JLA still set in the past? And who's taking over Aquaman?

[Kostisfire]

I'll start a subscription next month (both marvel and dc) but a friend of mine gave me the green lantern run (1-13,0 too) in cbz form and i have read only 0 and 13 so far.Baz has been enjoyable thus far but i finished both issues in under 5 minutes.There were more advert pages than comic book pages.